Author Topic: Under 2 - offended clock choice  (Read 922 times)

Offline br0ckt0n

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Under 2 - offended clock choice
« on: October 31, 2017, 09:45:40 AM »
2/7 B-40. 4th Q 0:39. A 21 B 18. A14 passes to A88 who catches pass near the B-2 as he dives for the ball, A88 bounces across GL. FJ rules TD. A88 taunts B23 following the ruling. IR determines that A88 was down at B-1.
Ruling  A 1/10 B-16..
?? Does B have option to start clock on snap??

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2017, 10:34:17 AM »
IMO they don't need an option here, were starting on the snap since the original reason we stopped the clock was the "apparent TD" scored by A.  Not sure we want to get into the "what-ifs" with replay situations and the clock but if we did we could say that if the clock hadn't stopped for the apparent TD it would have stopped for the A88 taunting (celebrating the apparent TD??) and then it would by rule qualify for the option since it would have been the reason the clock stopped?   :D

I'd just go with start on the snap since the reason the clock stopped was the result of the play was ruled a TD on the field.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 12:25:01 PM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline bossman72

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2017, 11:33:15 AM »
IMO they don't need an option here, were starting on the snap since the original reason we stopped the clock was the apparent TD scored by A.  Not sure we want to get into the "what-ifs" with replay situations and the clock but if we did we could say that if the clock hadn't stopped for the apparent TD it would have stopped for the A88 taunting (celebrating the apparent TD??) and then it would by rule qualify for the option since it would have been the reason the clock stopped?   :D

I'd just go with start on the snap since the reason the clock stopped was the result of the play was ruled a TD on the field.

Clock goes on the ready since replay reversed it.  I would not give the 10 sec runoff option based on the spirit of the rule.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2017, 12:29:52 PM »
Clock goes on the ready since replay reversed it.  I would not give the 10 sec runoff option based on the spirit of the rule.
If we go the IR reversal route then the reason the clock "would have" stopped would have been A's foul.  Then B gets the option.  The way I see it, either way B gets the RFP/Snap option since the "TD" stopped the clock or the A foul stopped the clock.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2017, 12:36:05 PM »
If we go the IR reversal route then the reason the clock "would have" stopped would have been A's foul.  Then B gets the option.  The way I see it, either way B gets the RFP/Snap option since the "TD" stopped the clock or the A foul stopped the clock.

Actually the 1st down stopped the clock.  Clock on the RFP.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2017, 04:08:04 PM »
Yep, if the clock was stopped ONLY to complete a penalty by the team ahead in score, then the opponent would have the option to start the clock on the snap.  But, in the case presented, when the RO ruled the BC was down in the field of play, officially, the clock was stopped for the first down, as well as to complete the penalty for A's foul; so B doesn't have an option.  Start the game clock on the R's signal.  No option for a ten-second subtraction, either.

The R has the discretion to start the clock on the snap for an obviously unfair act. But Team A is not fouling to manipulate the clock, in this case, so the clock should follow standard rules. 

Robert

Offline Morningrise

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »
When 3-4-3 gives the trailing team the option to start the clock on the snap, that's presumably because the leading team is gaining a time-wasting advantage by fouling. But I've been wondering: When it comes to live-ball fouls, how do those waste time at all?

Consider these two plays, even supposing the 3-4-3 rule for the last two minutes didn't exist:


a) 2/10 @ A-5. Team A leads by a point. No timeouts. A33 takes the handoff and is tackled inbounds for no gain. The clock shows 1:25.

Ruling: 3/10 @ A-5. Play clock at 40. Team A doesn't have to snap again until 0:45.

b) Same as above except A77 commits holding at the A-2.

Ruling: Team B will decline the penalty. 3/10 @ A-5. Play clock at 25. Team A has to snap at 1:00.


So we see Team A has not gained a time-wasting advantage by committing a live-ball foul. Just the opposite, in fact. By turning a 40 play clock into a 25, they've given Team B some life.

As for when Team B is the leading and fouling team, it's even more obvious that fouling to stop the clock will only conserve time rather than waste it. If I were Team A's coach trying to rush my FG team onto the field with no timeouts, I would love it if Team B had fouled during the previous down.

So why does the 3-4-3 rule for the last two minutes exist for live-ball fouls?

Offline ChicagoZebra

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Re: Under 2 - offended clock choice
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2017, 05:09:00 PM »
Imagine if B is down points and needed to accept a holding penalty or else A gains a first down. Because we repeat the down, A essentially gets an extra play to burn clock, and have the clock run before that play. I think the repeating the down aspect is really where I see 3-4-3 becoming useful in competitive balance.