Author Topic: Replay: Invoking egregious error  (Read 702 times)

Offline ljudge

  • *
  • Posts: 390
  • FAN REACTION: +19/-2
Replay: Invoking egregious error
« on: December 06, 2017, 08:38:50 AM »
I'm curious if replay has the power to correct the following:

A's ball 4th and 9.  A30 carries for 5 yards where he is tackled there.  The officials correctly flag for 12 men on defense.  The Referee announces the foul and indicates the penalty is 5 yards from the end of the run giving team "A" a first down after enforcement.

Can replay invoke the egregious error clause to allow the enforcement (which should have been 5 from the previous spot) to be corrected?

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 2838
  • FAN REACTION: +71/-101
  • High School (MA)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2017, 09:28:15 AM »
Although an "error in penalty enforcement" is not specifically reviewable per Rule 12, the replay official is a member of the officiating crew, and I would expect that he could/should offer his "you need to correct that" comment back to the on-field crew when he sees the incorrect enforcement.  IMHO that's not a play/spot/or foul corrected by review but an enforcement error correction suggested by a member of the officiating crew.  IMHO no "egregious error" clause needed.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline wlemonnier

  • Refstripes Hero
  • *****
  • Posts: 132
  • FAN REACTION: +43/-2
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 09:30:06 AM »
Technically the answer is "NO".  Penalty enforcement is not a replay category per se. Maybe an "unofficial tweet" on the O2O to jog their memories but the bottom line is the responsibility to officiate the game belongs with the on field officials.

Across the nation I see too many instances where I've heard on field officials rely on replay instead of taking ownership themselves... one official has information to help on a call and the other official rejects it and says let replay fix it.  Replay is great and if they can save you/us from a tough made for replay call then great.  But let's idealistically work toward putting replay out of business and do it ourselves.  It's becoming a cop-out.
Bill LeMonnier

Offline Rulesman

  • The Keeper of the Keys
  • Administrator
  • ***
  • Posts: 3835
  • FAN REACTION: +310/-238
  • Live like tomorrow never comes.
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 09:32:04 AM »
Technically the answer is "NO".  Penalty enforcement is not a replay category per se. Maybe an "unofficial tweet" on the O2O to jog their memories but the bottom line is the responsibility to officiate the game belongs with the on field officials.

Across the nation I see too many instances where I've heard on field officials rely on replay instead of taking ownership themselves... one official has information to help on a call and the other official rejects it and says let replay fix it.  Replay is great and if they can save you/us from a tough made for replay call then great.  But let's idealistically work toward putting replay out of business and do it ourselves.  It's becoming a cop-out.
Well said!
"Gentlemen, we are going to relentlessly chase perfection, knowing full well we will not catch it, because nothing is perfect. But we are going to relentlessly chase it, because in the process we will catch excellence. I am not remotely interested in just being good."
- Vince Lombardi

Offline NVFOA_Ump

  • *
  • Posts: 2838
  • FAN REACTION: +71/-101
  • High School (MA)
    • Massachusetts Independent Football Officials Association
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2017, 10:00:53 AM »
Have to agree with Bill here.  Replay should not be an excuse to not stay focused, make the call, and get the call right in real time.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline ljudge

  • *
  • Posts: 390
  • FAN REACTION: +19/-2
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2017, 11:29:58 AM »
Technically the answer is "NO".  Penalty enforcement is not a replay category per se. Maybe an "unofficial tweet" on the O2O to jog their memories but the bottom line is the responsibility to officiate the game belongs with the on field officials.

Across the nation I see too many instances where I've heard on field officials rely on replay instead of taking ownership themselves... one official has information to help on a call and the other official rejects it and says let replay fix it.  Replay is great and if they can save you/us from a tough made for replay call then great.  But let's idealistically work toward putting replay out of business and do it ourselves.  It's becoming a cop-out.

I totally agree, Bill.  Unfortunately, not all conferences have O2O.  If such a mistake were made and I was the RO, I'd love to be able to buzz the crew and help them get it correct.

Offline bossman72

  • *
  • Posts: 1161
  • FAN REACTION: +52/-21
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2017, 01:48:01 PM »
I totally agree, Bill.  Unfortunately, not all conferences have O2O.  If such a mistake were made and I was the RO, I'd love to be able to buzz the crew and help them get it correct.

Ask for forgiveness rather than permission.  If you get it right, nobody will complain that much.

Offline HoustonRef

  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • FAN REACTION: +16/-195
  • I am HoustonRef 100% Never doubt me
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2017, 08:33:11 PM »
Unfortunately, not all conferences have O2O.
Lol what Conference has replay and not O2O/headsets?

Offline RedTD

  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-2
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 10:02:17 AM »
Several FCS conferences in this area have Replay but do not have O2O.

Offline HoustonRef

  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • FAN REACTION: +16/-195
  • I am HoustonRef 100% Never doubt me
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2017, 06:13:37 PM »
Several FCS conferences in this area have Replay but do not have O2O.
Lol please tell me what area you’re talking about to ensure I never go there. It doesn’t have to be O2O...even HS crews here use headsets.

Offline RedTD

  • *
  • Posts: 113
  • FAN REACTION: +4/-2
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2017, 11:33:18 AM »
Lol please tell me what area you’re talking about to ensure I never go there. It doesn’t have to be O2O...even HS crews here use headsets.

Houston Ref: The Colonial Athletic Association (2 schools still in the quarterfinal round) and the Patriot League are just two that do not regularly have O2O for Replay games. Having crews use O2O is not a matter of the crews paying for a system. Its use has to be approved by the governing associations and there has to be specific procedures for coordination within the crew and with the Replay booth. I was going to post a snide remark in response to your desire never to come to the east coast but I'll try to keep it professional tiphat: tiphat: tiphat:

Offline HoustonRef

  • *
  • Posts: 151
  • FAN REACTION: +16/-195
  • I am HoustonRef 100% Never doubt me
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2017, 12:01:19 PM »
Lol I understand the procedures involved. Mind boggling that a conference would not rush to include something that is so common and easy to implement.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 333
  • FAN REACTION: +38/-38
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2017, 12:03:28 PM »
"It doesn’t have to be O2O...even HS crews here use headsets."

Curious statement.  Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe "O2O" simply means "official to official," and does not reference any specific style of brand of communication equipment.  So, crews in Texas using "headsets," are, indeed, using O2O communications.

Yes, there is a significant number of HS crews in Texas using O2O electronic voice communications.  But it is not a majority, yet.  I'm sure, in time, that will change, and a majority - eventually a vast majority - will be using O2O communications.  But not yet.

As others have noted, not even all NCAA crews are using O2O systems, yet.  I'm sure that will change, too.  Probably sooner than the majority of HS guys in Texas.

Robert
 

« Last Edit: December 08, 2017, 01:07:15 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline carol1995

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 87
  • FAN REACTION: +11/-4
Re: Replay: Invoking egregious error
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2017, 12:36:18 PM »
Lol I understand the procedures involved. Mind boggling that a conference would not rush to include something that is so common and easy to implement.

I think the issue for many is the cost for the equipment that has the necessary security.  None of us want folks in the stands to hack into our system and listen in on what we are saying.  While 95% of it is all business, there's a few things thrown in to lighten the mood sometimes.  Fans would have a heyday with something like this.