Author Topic: Football drying agents  (Read 2240 times)

Offline Stinterp

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Football drying agents
« on: December 10, 2017, 10:52:17 AM »
Are football drying agents allowed in HS by rule?  There are several powder agents that are put into a bag with the balls to dry the ball. There is also something new on the market, which are dry beads that are put into a bag with the balls, and the beads suck the water from the ball.  There is no substance applied to the ball.  Also can the balls be dried off using a portable dryer?  Are any of these legal.  Rule reference please.

Offline FLAHL

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2017, 11:46:22 AM »
If no substance is applied to the ball, there is no rule that prohibits their use.

“A rule is one of the groups of regulations which govern the game. A rule ­sometimes states what a player may do, but if there is no such statement for a given act (such as faking a kick), it is assumed that he may do what is not ­prohibited.”

Excerpt From: NFHS. “2017 NFHS Football Rules Book.” NFHS.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2017, 12:36:39 PM »
I can't justify "powders in a bag" as being legal by the technicality that you're applying the ball to the substance instead of the substance to the ball. If it might leave a residue on the ball, then I've got a problem with it -- the beads might work great the first couple times, but after a while in a rainy game will they start to break down and leave a residue?

Using a hairdryer on the sideline? Sure, nothing wrong with that.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2017, 11:06:51 AM »
Some time ago, probably before the advent of drying agents, working a sideline at a very wet NCAA ruled game, the ball boys were putting exchanged balls into a garbage bag, from which they subsequently emerged dry.  When asked what was in the bag, I was advised Oatmeal, which proved to be quite effective.

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2017, 11:43:04 AM »
If there is no residue I see no problem with a drying agent.  Blow dryer, why not?
Big Ump
aka Shawn

"EVERY JOB IS A SELF-PORTRAIT OF THE PERSON WHO DID IT.  AUTOGRAPH YOUR WORK WITH EXCELLENCE."~unknown

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 10:30:58 AM »
Like Oatmeal, I'm told that kitty-litter has the same qualities. If used, I suggest before the cats have arrived crazy !!!

Offline Stinterp

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 12:19:32 PM »
Are we going to allow a team to put kitty litter in a plastic bag and insert the ball to dry it?

Offline refjeff

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 12:35:37 PM »
Are we going to allow a team to put kitty litter in a plastic bag and insert the ball to dry it?
Sure.  It is not a "Slippery or sticky substance of a foreign nature ... which affects the ball ... "  It just absorbs water, like a towel would.

Offline Curious

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 02:41:02 PM »
An effective product by the name of "Ball Dry" has been around for a long time - and, to my knowledge, still is.  It left no residue on the ball; so, along with Oatmeal, such agents seem okay IMHO.

I do have an issue with putting the balls in a portable dryer however.  Dryers use heat, so that suggests to me that the warmer air INSIDE the ball might have an effect on the performance of the ball; or may make the ball's psi out of specification (sort of the reverse of "Deflate Gate) pi1eOn

Now, this brings me to a subject which has long perplexed me.  Rule 1-3-2 specifies:
1. each team must supply AT LEAST one approved ball
2.any approved ball may be used for a free kick or at the start of a series

Then 1-3-3 allows for the exchange of approved balls WHEN THE FIELD IS WET

So, EVEN WHEN IT'S NOT WET, it has become common practice for officials to "swap out" balls during long pass plays or when a run ends, or the ball is fumbled, out of bounds.   This practice makes total sense - and speeds up the game - but seemingly violates the letter (and I suspect spirit) of the rule.So shouldn't the RB be "up-dated" to reflect today's game and practices?
:bOW :bOW yEs: yEs: 











so shouldn't the
   

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 02:54:13 PM »
Like Oatmeal, I'm told that kitty-litter has the same qualities. If used, I suggest before the cats have arrived crazy !!!

That may explain why a certain restaurant cat gave me a really strange look whenever I ordered Oatmeal.

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 05:21:56 AM »
  ........  .So shouldn't the RB be "up-dated" to reflect today's game and practices?

Swapping the ball out at any time is not illegal and as long as it's OK with the officiating crew past practice allows it, at least in my 20 years of experience.  I guess that we could use an additional line that says it's OK but I'm not a fan of increasing the verbiage in the book by listing things that are legal.
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline Curious

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2017, 12:53:45 PM »
Swapping the ball out at any time is not illegal and as long as it's OK with the officiating crew past practice allows it, at least in my 20 years of experience.  I guess that we could use an additional line that says it's OK but I'm not a fan of increasing the verbiage in the book by listing things that are legal.

While I whole-heartedly agree that this practice has been used "forever", and I support its use , I do not believe it is TECHNICALLY LEGAL BY RULE.. If the rule(s) actually permits a "swap out" on any down, why do they restrict it to only free kick downs, the beginning of a series, and when the field is wet? IMHO, at some point in time, the "Rule Gods" apparently WANTED to limit such action.  Some minor "word-smithing" would clearly legalize what has long become standard practice.       

Offline PABJNR

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Football drying agents
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 03:45:24 PM »
1. The team is not requesting the ball to be changed
2. This is a classic spirit of the law vs letter of the law debate
3. Don’t pick boogers


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Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2017, 04:39:44 PM »
Are we going to allow a team to put kitty litter in a plastic bag and insert the ball to dry it?
I have had teams use sand on rainy cold nights which worked well. 

But, murder on my hands from the grit.  But it did not put a film or sticky surface on the ball.

Also, we have been instructed to change a ball if requested, as long as the ball persons get the ball to us timely. 
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 04:43:44 PM by GA Umpire »

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 05:02:19 PM »
While I whole-heartedly agree that this practice has been used "forever", and I support its use , I do not believe it is TECHNICALLY LEGAL BY RULE.. If the rule(s) actually permits a "swap out" on any down, why do they restrict it to only free kick downs, the beginning of a series, and when the field is wet? IMHO, at some point in time, the "Rule Gods" apparently WANTED to limit such action.  Some minor "word-smithing" would clearly legalize what has long become standard practice.   

I'm not sure what rule you're referencing, but NFHS 1-3-3 simple states, "The Referee shall decide whether the ball meets specifications.  If the field is wet, the referee may order the the ball changed between downs." seems to cover a wide range of circumstances, completely as is.

There doesn't seem to be any specification as to "how" wet the field may be, or what may be the source of wetness (weather, sweat, or any other source, or degree, of moisture) and the decision, whether or not and when to switch balls   falls under the exclusive determination of the Referee.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2018, 12:04:38 PM »
It's probably been 20? years, but I remember conveyor belt ball dryers they had on, I think, NFL sidelines at wet games.
They were similar to the conveyor belt pizza ovens.
Wonder what ever happened to them...???

Offline GAHSUMPIRE

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2018, 12:37:59 PM »
Are we going to allow a team to put kitty litter in a plastic bag and insert the ball to dry it?

Why not rice? It works for cell phones. :-)

I've never tried kitty litter, so I will defer to those who have, but I would think that would clump together on the ball and leave a mess.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2018, 04:05:07 PM »
Why not rice? It works for cell phones. :-)

I've never tried kitty litter, so I will defer to those who have, but I would think that would clump together on the ball and leave a mess.
I agree with rice, but doesnt it leave a white residue.
Kittly litter only clumps for particular things..

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2018, 05:40:52 AM »
I use kitty litter for oil spills. It doesn't clump.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2018, 09:31:28 AM »
I use kitty litter for oil spills. It doesn't clump.
well, I meant kittly litter only clumps for.....ummm, certain biological items related to felines

Offline Kalle

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2018, 10:24:14 AM »
well, I meant kittly litter only clumps for.....ummm, certain biological items related to felines

Depends on the litter type. New silicone based litters don't clump even with biological items.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2018, 01:49:03 PM »
Depends on the litter type. New silicone based litters don't clump even with biological items.
...and the silicone kitty litter will de-fog your window too. (dop some in a sock and leave it in your car overnight.)
:)

Offline Tom.OH

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2018, 07:36:43 PM »
...and the silicone kitty litter will de-fog your window too. (dop some in a sock and leave it in your car overnight.)
:)

Do windows fog up in Florida?...
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Offline yarnnelg

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Re: Football drying agents
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2018, 10:19:44 PM »
Go parking somewhere, you can fog up windows anywhere.

I've fogged up windows in Tampa and St Pete many times.