Author Topic: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games  (Read 975 times)

Offline Chiefump

  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« on: December 24, 2017, 12:27:06 PM »
This is an open question for any officials that worked any of the games or anyone else that may have direct knowledge of the issue. Did the UIL directly tell the crews to ignore the rules regarding equipment, i.e., no knee pads, bandanas under helmets, mouthpieces, towels, illegal jerseys?  If this is the case or if it was just a decision by the crews to ignore the violations it makes it very difficult on the crews that made the effort to enforce the rules during the season and sets a bad example for the crews trying to do the right thing next season.  I have seen the comments that we should have bigger things to worry about in the game but it's ignoring the little things that will eventually turn in to big things. The rules are there for a reason.

Offline Clear Lake ref

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2017, 12:55:44 PM »
Once you fix the little things, the big things become less of a problem. It's how Giuliani cleaned up New York.

Offline Clear Lake ref

  • *
  • Posts: 68
  • FAN REACTION: +0/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #2 on: December 24, 2017, 12:59:35 PM »
Should add:

Fix,but don't fixate.

Offline TXPanhandle

  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • FAN REACTION: +7/-131
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2017, 04:00:09 PM »
This is an open question for any officials that worked any of the games or anyone else that may have direct knowledge of the issue. Did the UIL directly tell the crews to ignore the rules regarding equipment, i.e., no knee pads, bandanas under helmets, mouthpieces, towels, illegal jerseys?  If this is the case or if it was just a decision by the crews to ignore the violations it makes it very difficult on the crews that made the effort to enforce the rules during the season and sets a bad example for the crews trying to do the right thing next season.  I have seen the comments that we should have bigger things to worry about in the game but it's ignoring the little things that will eventually turn in to big things. The rules are there for a reason.

Thank you for this post and questions. Questions I hope get answered honestly. Going into next season knowing the knee pad actually covering the knee comes into play I cannot help but now wonder if we are going to ignore that rule too like all the others mentioned were ignored. And Iím talking about the safety rules like missing mouth pieces, back pads not covered, etc.

At this point Iím certainly going into next season planning on not giving a hoot about knee pads since itís allowed on the biggest stage in Texas.

Online TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1512
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-25
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2017, 03:13:27 PM »
Personally, I think when we see knee pad issues in games next year, if weíve done our due deligence in telling the head coaches these issues have to be cleaned up, we start calling time outs on the teams not in proper uniform.  If we all did this, the issues woul get cleaned up very quickly.

Offline Joe Stack

  • *
  • Posts: 554
  • FAN REACTION: +30/-43
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2017, 04:55:59 PM »
I haven't worked a state champ. game but I've been on site multiple full days over the past few years -- in the press box, on the field, in the locker/hallway, etc. I've talked to the crews, a few chapter officers, TASO brass, UIL brass, etc. Not once have I heard any comment about any issue the OP raises. Maybe they didn't exist in the years I was there (hard to believe) but I am pretty sure that none of the UIL administrators on site are even remotely interested in these issues. They want the event to run well and on time. They want what the people see on TV to look professional. Beyond that...

Now, in fairness, they'd come back and say at least 2 things: first, they want the officials to handle such issues and second, the UIL people there aren't necessarily the ones that put the rules discussed in place. 

Offline Cowtown Ref

  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-0
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 11:17:16 AM »
One pertaining issue to enforcement of these kind of violations is UIL wanting us to only come out 30 mins  before KO.  It has been reinforced in our chapter that we don't have jurisdiction before the 30min mark, so stay in locker room.

But that's when you can take care of these little things.  Trying to handle at KO or during the game, is nonsense.

So, my point is that we need to be going out 1 hour before KO and handling these issues. 

Just my 2 cents

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 1954
  • FAN REACTION: +77/-23
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 10:22:47 PM »
One pertaining issue to enforcement of these kind of violations is UIL wanting us to only come out 30 mins  before KO.  It has been reinforced in our chapter that we don't have jurisdiction before the 30min mark, so stay in locker room.

But that's when you can take care of these little things.  Trying to handle at KO or during the game, is nonsense.

So, my point is that we need to be going out 1 hour before KO and handling these issues. 

Just my 2 cents

We are out on the field anytime there are two opposing teams out there.  We understand we don't have jurisdiction until 30 mins but we can still handle issues that could be an issue.  I attended a playoff game in which a different chapter was assigned and he crew NEVER came out until it was time for the coin toss.  They literally walked onto the field 7 mins. before kickoff

Offline psv

  • *
  • Posts: 208
  • FAN REACTION: +11/-13
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 01:31:30 AM »
We are out on the field anytime there are two opposing teams out there.  We understand we don't have jurisdiction until 30 mins but we can still handle issues that could be an issue.  I attended a playoff game in which a different chapter was assigned and he crew NEVER came out until it was time for the coin toss.  They literally walked onto the field 7 mins. before kickoff

Once our jurisdiction starts, and there are no teams on the field, why go out?

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • FAN REACTION: +39/-38
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 07:46:04 AM »
When do you check the field?
Make sure there are no unsafe conditions within the limit lines, and, if there are, get management to make necessary corrections.  Be sure the pylons are there and positioned correctly.  Make sure yard line markers and/or advertising elements are outside the limit lines.   Check the locations of the play clocks.  Instruct the clock operators, if not already done.  Check and mark game balls, if not already done.  Instruct chain crew and ball persons, if not already done.  Check field mic.  Etc. Etc. Etc.

I dare say that canít be done in 7 minutes.

That stuff can be done anytime, but, at the HS level, chain crew personnel, ball persons, clock operators, etc., are quite often not available more than 30 minutes before K/O.  Arriving at the game site 90 minutes before K/O leaves only so much time to dress, confer with the head coaches, have some sort of pre-game conference, perform the pre-game checks, AND be on the field any time both teams are on the field beginning at 30 minutes before K/O.

Yes, arriving earlier might help, but those COs, chain crew, etc., still ainít gonna be there, so that doesnít help much.  And, this is neither a primary job, nor an activity that compensates officials enough to get to the game sites much more than 90 minutes before K/O.  More power to anyone that can, and will, but, at a lot of sites, that really wonít help much.

Yes, both teams are not usually on the field very long between T minus 30 and K/O, but, if they are, we need to be there.  Thatís our best opportunity to do those pre-game checks.  Once we get those done, if one or both teams have left the field, sure we can, too.

Robert


Offline Joe Stack

  • *
  • Posts: 554
  • FAN REACTION: +30/-43
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 12:55:22 PM »
The pre-game thing is an issue that I have tried to get TASO to do something about and they keep ignoring it. I talked with Cooper Castleberry at a regional clinic last year about this exact issue: if we're on the field (and we are on there at least an hour before KO), what happens if there are issues that take place between then and 30 minutes prior to game time? I don't think UIL would have a problem with expanding our jurisdiction like the book says (i.e. no exception) but they just haven't been made aware of this being a potential problem. It is up to TASO -- you know, the guys that supposedly KNOW the rules and what changes might help -- to make UIL aware of these things and as far as I know, they haven't.

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 1954
  • FAN REACTION: +77/-23
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 07:58:34 PM »
Once our jurisdiction starts, and there are no teams on the field, why go out?

I'm just saying the crew working a 4th round playoff game never came out.  I was on site 2 hours before the game and they never walked the field or did anything.  Other than pregame with the coaches outside the field-house they never came onto the field.  At 30 mins till kickoff both teams WERE on the field but no official anywhere.  At 20 mins the teams left the field.  At 7 mins till the crew makes their way to the field.

Offline TXMike

  • *
  • Posts: 8406
  • FAN REACTION: +223/-239
  • When you quit learning you quit living
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2018, 08:48:22 AM »
The pre-game thing is an issue that I have tried to get TASO to do something about and they keep ignoring it. I talked with Cooper Castleberry at a regional clinic last year about this exact issue: if we're on the field (and we are on there at least an hour before KO), what happens if there are issues that take place between then and 30 minutes prior to game time? I don't think UIL would have a problem with expanding our jurisdiction like the book says (i.e. no exception) but they just haven't been made aware of this being a potential problem. It is up to TASO -- you know, the guys that supposedly KNOW the rules and what changes might help -- to make UIL aware of these things and as far as I know, they haven't.
why are you on the field that early ?  Just because there has not been a change made does not mean you are not being heard.  Perhaps the majority of those charged with making changes do not agree with you .  We can all give anecdotal evidence and proof of why one way is better than another .  But when we have very limited time on site prior to the game, wouldnít we better served using as much of that time as possible doing pregame mechanics,rules and situation reviews?
I have tried for years to have the auto DQ of targeting penalties removed.  I know UIL and TASO have received the recommendation.   I also know that so far my opinion is in the minority so has not been adopted. Thatís life .
« Last Edit: January 08, 2018, 08:52:18 AM by TXMike »

Online TexDoc

  • *
  • Posts: 1512
  • FAN REACTION: +90/-25
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2018, 08:53:46 AM »
My U and I go out about an hour before kick, sometimes a bit earlier.  Some chapters go with the entire crew, which I refuse to do as there is no need for it.  At 35 minutes before kickoff, the H, L and B go out, check balls, talk to chain crew, check field, keep an eye on teams.  Teams are usually off by about 20 before kick, so we go back in for a last minute wizz and then head back out.  Seems to work for us for the last 7 seasons on this crew.  And with a good radio system, you can communicate from the field to the dressing room to coordinate things. 

One thing we are sticklers on is footballs.  It is incredible how many times we check balls and they are grossly underinflated.  We always get them up to par, but sometimes we think they let some air out.  We mark balls and never let a "kicking ball" or unapproved ball into the game.  All of this administrative stuff needs to be done before the game. 

The discussion with coaches should be as quick as possible but it must cover all of the important points.  I have a check list for each team that I go down in discussions with each coach, and always talk to home team coach first to check for special circumstances, homecoming, whatever.  We've had several situations where we asked the band to move back their mobile conductor stands and caught HECK about it, but we won't start the game without that type of thing being fixed.  Take care of all of that before the game, and I think it sets the tone for the entire game.  It shows you mean business, are concerned about player safety, and will follow the rules.

Offline ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 334
  • FAN REACTION: +39/-38
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Uniform related issues in State Championship Games
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2018, 03:33:01 PM »
Started a new "pre-game" discussion.  Take a look.

Robert