Author Topic: ball rotation  (Read 1035 times)

Offline Navcom

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ball rotation
« on: May 08, 2018, 08:05:09 PM »
any tricks to ball rotation?

Offline bossman72

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2018, 08:21:03 AM »
Not sure what you're asking exactly, but in our area (and NCAA) we typically keep 4 footballs (2 home, 2 away) on the press box side and 2 (1 home 1 away) on the sticks side.

All changes of possession come from the press box side.  So therefore the team in possession has 1 of their balls in play, and 1 on each sideline.  Incomplete pass to one sideline?  Bring a ball in from that sideline.  Easy.

They only time when it gets tricky is when a punt goes OOB on the sticks side.  You have to remember to get a ball of the punting team and rotate it back out to the press box side.  Otherwise you'll have 2 on the sticks side and none on the press box side.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2018, 09:55:05 AM »
I started to lay out a lengthy description of ball handling operations, but my experience was with crews of 7, and I suspect crews of 8 is significantly different, with the C handling the ball so much, and being behind the NZ.  So I'll just make some general comments. 

Be focused and pay attention - essentially, be ready to replace the game ball after every down.  When moving to make a replacement, hustle - don't 'hurry,' but hustle.  With the 40-second play clock, you simply have to hustle, to get the ball spotted efficiently (by 32 on the play clock).
 
The convenience and efficiency of ball replacement is highly dependent upon the ball persons.  At the FBS level (crews of 7), we often had as many as 5 ball persons PER TEAM.  One with each sideline guy, and a "runner," to keep the number of balls balanced on each side.  If you have that many ball persons, and you work with them effectively, ball handling can be very smooth and efficient.  You may not have the luxury of 5 per team.  You may have as few as 2 per team (one on each sideline).  Regardless, be friendly to them and treat them with respect.  Tell them how much help they are to you and your crew, and how much you appreciate their effort.  Ask them to hustle, pay attention, and be ready after EVERY down, to get a replacement ball into the game.  Hand the ball to each other as much as possible, but short, underhand tosses are fine.  Ask them to stay off the field, unless you direct them to come onto the field to retrieve an 'old' ball near the sideline (while you are getting the replacement ball into the U/C).  For their safety and your safety, ask them to stay at least 6 feet off the sideline, unless they are in the act of sending or receiving a ball to/from you.  If you don't have a "runner," tell them that you (the crew) will do your best to help keep the balls balanced, but there may be times when they will just have to run around the end zone to the other side to retrieve/deliver a ball for that purpose.  Ask them to be ready immediately after the coin toss, and be back on the field and ready to go before the second half K/O.  Tell them to keep any comments to persons on the opposing team to a minimum; if they have an issue with opposing team personnel (including their ball persons), let you know and you will handle it.
And don't mess with the air the frickin' balls.

Good luck!

Robert



     

Offline SJ3205

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2018, 11:37:32 AM »
I would just add that if possible learn and use  the first  names of the ball personnel. I typically in my NCAA games also try to chat for a minute with the kids- find out their major or where they are from, find out what their motivation to work the balls (paid?) and are they the regular guys every home game. The last thing you want  are "walking wounded" players or kids so far down the depth chart they don't have a jersey.
If they are doing a good job then let them know it! If they need to do better remember that alot of these kids won't respond to negativity.
The ball kids completely have the ability in a college game to make you look good or bad.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2018, 11:57:18 AM »
I would just add that if possible learn and use  the first  names of the ball personnel. I typically in my NCAA games also try to chat for a minute with the kids- find out their major or where they are from, find out what their motivation to work the balls (paid?) and are they the regular guys every home game. The last thing you want  are "walking wounded" players or kids so far down the depth chart they don't have a jersey.
If they are doing a good job then let them know it! If they need to do better remember that alot of these kids won't respond to negativity.
The ball kids completely have the ability in a college game to make you look good or bad.

Hear! Hear! :thumbup

Offline Navcom

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2018, 03:29:05 PM »
I really like this page...thank you gents

Offline Magician

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2018, 04:54:09 PM »
Some additional rotation tips:
  • If a run ends outside the top of the numbers, generally get a new ball from the deep wing on that side and have the runner give the ball to the short wing to place at his feet for spotting.
  • There are times the runner will step out of bounds while running down the sideline and toss the game ball to the deep wing. I would still get this ball and the short wing can get a different ball from the ball boy to place at his feet. Placing the ball at the feet of the short wing isn't critical, but it does look good.
  • On a long incomplete pass the short wing on that side should get a new ball from the ball boy and relay it to the U.
  • On short incomplete passes to the side zones the ball could come in either from the short wing or deep wing and could be the ball from the previous play.
  • On free kicks the deep wing will get a ball from the ball boy and relay it while the short wing is getting the spot.
  • On punts this is reversed as the deep wing is getting the spot.
  • If you have rain or a wet field you may need to use wet ball mechanics. In this case try to get a new ball in as often necessary. I often will hold the ball under my towel until the line comes to the LOS to try to keep it as dry as possible. There are times though no matter what you do the ball will be wet.

As others have said, smooth ball mechanics can make a crew look really good. Watch the NFL and D1 games and it's like art work.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2018, 07:08:49 PM »
Holy crud!  I almost forgot the golden rule!  Donít let the ball hit the ground!

Robert

Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2018, 08:33:47 PM »
The biggest mistake I see people make with ball rotation is being in too much of a hurry. Getting a new ball is the lowest priority. Be a good dead ball official first. All the time I see officials start looking at the ball boy as soon as the play is over and they completely miss the action in front of them. Let the dust settle and then worry about the ball.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2018, 09:16:31 PM »
The biggest mistake I see people make with ball rotation is being in too much of a hurry. Getting a new ball is the lowest priority. Be a good dead ball official first. All the time I see officials start looking at the ball boy as soon as the play is over and they completely miss the action in front of them. Let the dust settle and then worry about the ball.

Amen.  Amen.  Amen.

Offline copedaddy

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2018, 09:39:05 PM »
The preferred rotation in the northern hemisphere is clockwise.....sorry

Offline SJ3205

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2018, 11:29:26 AM »
Here's another one that I don't think I've seen in this thread....

Change of possession (kick, turnover, turnover on downs) ends in a side zone on the visitor's side of the field. Get a ball from the ball boys on teh visitor side (any ball) and put it on the yard line where the play ended, retrieve the ball we were using and send it toward the home side- probably via the back  as the ball for the new possession comes around the front. That keeps us from scrambling around when we really need to be getting our pre snap counts, etc done.

Offline Magician

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2018, 01:03:37 PM »
Here's another one that I don't think I've seen in this thread....

Change of possession (kick, turnover, turnover on downs) ends in a side zone on the visitor's side of the field. Get a ball from the ball boys on teh visitor side (any ball) and put it on the yard line where the play ended, retrieve the ball we were using and send it toward the home side- probably via the back  as the ball for the new possession comes around the front. That keeps us from scrambling around when we really need to be getting our pre snap counts, etc done.

You could definitely do that, but it's much less critical to have a ball down at the end of the play on COP. Unless you are deep in either territory whether you start at the 31 or 32 or even 33 really won't matter. The wing will get spot and hold it. It doesn't hurt anything to do this though.

Offline Navcom

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2018, 02:55:38 PM »
imagine the discussion we could all have if we all sat together at dinner.

Offline #92

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2018, 03:35:57 PM »
Be focused and pay attention - essentially, be ready to replace the game ball after every down.
This reminds me of an A.R. I don't understand.
Quote from: A.R. 1-3-2-I
On fourth down, kicker A1 enters the field with an approved game ball and asks the referee to substitute it for the ball used during the previous down.
RULING: Substitution of the ball is not permitted.
Quote
Why is that? And how is this somehow a result of Rule 1-3-2? I don't seen anything in there that prohibits this...

Offline Kalle

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2018, 04:11:35 PM »
This reminds me of an A.R. I don't understand.
Quote from: A.R. 1-3-2-I
On fourth down, kicker A1 enters the field with an approved game ball and asks the referee to substitute it for the ball used during the previous down.
RULING: Substitution of the ball is not permitted.
Quote
Why is that? And how is this somehow a result of Rule 1-3-2? I don't seen anything in there that prohibits this...

1-3-2-f: "Once the teams have presented the game balls to the referee, they remain under the general supervision of the officials throughout the game."

A player may not request a specific ball to be used for the next down.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2018, 04:58:51 PM »
This reminds me of an A.R. I don't understand.
Quote from: A.R. 1-3-2-I
On fourth down, kicker A1 enters the field with an approved game ball and asks the referee to substitute it for the ball used during the previous down.
RULING: Substitution of the ball is not permitted.
Quote
Why is that? And how is this somehow a result of Rule 1-3-2? I don't seen anything in there that prohibits this...

Why?  Under the philosophy that each game ball offered for use, and tested and approved by the officials, is then good for use for any given play.  In the NCAA, neither team is permitted to select a specific ball for use on any specific down.  As long as a ball remains legal and fit for play (not wet, or have any natural or artificial substance on it, etc.), it stays in the game until it is replaced by rule.  Only the R and U can order the game ball to be changed, and only if it becomes illegal or unfit for play.  Just because a kicker or passer likes the 'feel' of a specific ball doesn't mean he gets to request that it be used for any specific play.  And no ball may be marked for identification as a preferred ball for use in any particular situation (1-3-3).  He gets what he gets.  He'd better like the balls his coach submits for use.

Robert

Offline clearwall

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 07:57:43 AM »
Ask them to hustle, pay attention, and be ready after EVERY down, to get a replacement ball into the game.  Hand the ball to each other as much as possible, but short, underhand tosses are fine.  Ask them to stay off the field, unless you direct them to come onto the field to retrieve an 'old' ball near the sideline (while you are getting the replacement ball into the U/C).  For their safety and your safety, ask them to stay at least 6 feet off the sideline, unless they are in the act of sending or receiving a ball to/from you. 


Agree with everything you wrote on here, Elvis, but I did have a comment on this specific piece. I've done a few games at chains for the NFL and they actually ask the ball person to step out on the field with a ball held high on deep passes outside the numbers. It keeps the deep wing/wing from having to find them when running back to the LOS to replace the ball. Make it known "THIS IS WHERE THE BALL IS, I'VE GOT IT(I've even heard the ball person call the official's name or yell "BALL" while doing this).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2018, 08:12:32 AM by clearwall »

Online ElvisLives

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Re: ball rotation
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 08:32:29 AM »

Agree with everything you wrote on here, Elvis, but I did have a comment on this specific piece. I've done a few games for the NFL and they actually ask the ball person to step out on the field with a ball held high on deep passes outside the numbers. It keeps the deep wing/wing from having to find them when running back to the LOS to replace the ball. Make it known "THIS IS WHERE THE BALL IS, I'VE GOT IT(I've even heard the ball person call the official's name or yell "BALL" while doing this).

Totally concur.  When I mentioned staying off the field, I was referencing some "old" days, when ball persons would run the ball to an official well onto the field, sometimes all the way to the U standing at the hash mark.  Thankfully, even before the advent of the 40-second clock, that practice went away in NCAA.  But it seems like, once in a while, I'll see some high school video and the ball boys will run onto the field to give a ball to an official, or run well onto the field to retrieve an "old" ball.  Don't allow that.

Absolutely.  Once the ball is clearly dead, the ball persons should make themselves visible and obvious, and a step or two onto the field to get the attention of an official is just fine.  Definitely hold the ball overhead after every play - you never know when an official will need a ball - and wait until the official calls for it.  Make sure they have eye contact with the receiving official before they toss the ball.  Knowing and using each other's names can be very helpful, functionally and sociologically.

When I worked deep, we always had at least two ball persons per sideline (per team) - one with the short wing, and one with the deep guy.  I always preferred my ball person to stay at least 5 yards in front of me (back toward the NZ), because, most of the time, I'd be moving back toward the NZ to deliver the replacement ball.  That would keep the ball person between me and the NZ, so I could see him easily and get a ball from him as I moved toward the NZ to deliver it to the U.  Very efficient.  If the ball person is right with you, or behind you, at the snap, you frequently have to turn your head or body around to find them at the end of a play, which is not only inefficient, but it takes your attention away from the players too long.
Even if you have just one ball person (per side), keep him between the two sideline guys, to optimize access to him by both officials.

Robert