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Offline TXMike

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Punt Play Action
« on: September 14, 2018, 02:45:56 PM »
Anything on the returner?    https://youtu.be/NCdMEFD8vfE   
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Online NVFOA_Ump

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2018, 02:49:50 PM »
Looks like a 15 yard PF to me.  Signaled (not a legal FC signal) then waited until defender looked away and blocked him high with an upward launch.  I'd have a flag.
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Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2018, 03:07:44 PM »
Geez.
No B player that gives a valid or invalid signal for a fair catch and does not touch the ball may block or foul an opponent during the down.  15 yards.. Spot foul on Free Kicks.  PSK on scrimmage kicks.

The "get away" signal is an invalid fair catch signal, so this guy is not permitted to block for the remainder of the down.  I hope they got this, but I'm guessing they didn't.

Robert
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Offline Ump62

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2018, 04:38:43 PM »
With the Team B PLayer wearing bicycle shorts, hopefully this clip is not from this year!
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Offline OSU65

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2018, 03:58:56 PM »
"by rule" ( ok my attempt at humor based on a previous post of mine ) I found this while trying to determine the difference between valid and invalid fair catch signals. I thought that an invalid signal was anything that wasn't valid, but that's not the case. The definition is pretty darn specific. There must be a waving signal to be invalid. I see no hand waving at all by the receiver so how could it be an invalid signal? If the definition wasn't so specific anything that a player did could be considered an invalid signal. If an invalid signal was defined as any "signal", and not just a waving signal, you would have to define the term "signal".

Valid Signal
ARTICLE 2. A valid signal is a signal given by a player of Team B who has obviously signaled his intention by extending one hand only clearly above his head and waving that hand from side to side of his body more than once.
Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B:
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2018, 04:05:22 PM »
The wave has been interpreted to include the get away signal.   The one thing that still seems in quesdtion is when the returner just points at some one or some area.  That is probably not to be considered an invalid signal
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Offline OSU65

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2018, 08:16:58 PM »
Not sure how a fair catch signal that does not involve waving can be called invalid.


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Re: Invalid Fair catch Signal ? (video)
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2011, 06:10:10 PM »
Quote
Quote from: TXMike on October 26, 2011, 05:12:00 PM
By defintion, if it is not a "waving signal" it is not an invalid FC signal.   

Maybe someone can look at the older books but I think there was an evolution to this wherein  at one point ANY signal that was not a valid signal was an invalid signal and then there was clarity added by stating any WAVING signal that was not valid was an invalid signal

2009-2010:
Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any waving signal by a player of Team B
that does not meet the requirements of a valid signal (Rule 6-5-3).


From 2008:
Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any signal by a player of Team B that does
not meet the requirements of a valid signal (Rule 6-5-3).

From 2007:
Invalid Signal
ARTICLE 3. An invalid signal is any signal by a player of Team B that does
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2018, 08:23:25 PM »
If it does not involve waving then it is not a fair catch signal.  but waves come in many shapes and forms
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Offline Etref

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2018, 08:52:17 PM »
Why is this not targeting, we have launch with contact abov shoulders
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Offline Sonofanump

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2018, 09:50:09 PM »
Quote from: Etref on September 16, 2018, 08:52:17 PM
Why is this not targeting, we have launch with contact abov shoulders

Looks to me like forearm to chest.
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Offline BankerRef

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2018, 10:03:40 PM »
Targeting?  Really?  This isn't targeting because the kicking team player is not defenseless and it certainly doesn't meet 9-1-3.  Even if he was defenseless under 9-1-4 the force of the contact is also clearly shoulder to chest.

I also don't see anything that I would consider a valid or invalid signal for fair catch that prevents #20 from blocking.  It appears we have one player who is alert and one who is not and pays the price at the hands of an opportunist.  Is it a cheap shot?  Probably, but looks like a legal hit to me.
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Offline TXMike

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2018, 10:28:13 PM »
This has some more views.     https://youtu.be/eHBjkBPoIoc I believe the returner does give the get away signal one time (5 sec mark of the original video). 
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Offline OSU65

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2018, 10:52:46 AM »
I guess that's why the two hands down pointing at the ball will probably become more prevalent.
thx for the extra video clips
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Offline PAREF

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Re: Punt Play Action
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2018, 02:47:51 PM »
I would have a flag for an Illegal Block. In the conference I work in even if I did not have an Illegal Block I would be flagging this as a UNR. This block is totally unnecessary and solely meant to punish the opponent, and if not called would have me raking leaves instead of officiating the next week.
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