JV Game Coin Toss

[UTchad]

So our association is hurting for officials and that means double headers sometimes with a Freshman and JV game played on the same field right after each other. Anyways one of these game last week I was the Umpire usually I am HL.

During the coin toss the head coach of the visiting team said he would join the coin toss, so we advised the home coach and we had both coaches out there. It went something like this:

R: give opening talk
VCapt: calls heads
The toss is heads
R: You won the toss would you like to receive, defer, or kick?
Vcapt: Defer
VHC: NO we don't want to defer let's kick
R: Are you sure?
HHC: Buddy you definitely want to defer
VCapt: Coach let's defer
VHC: Nope we are kicking i'm not happy with the hustle this week so we are kicking
R: does the signaling

fast forward to halftime Visiting team is lining up to receive

We walk over to the coach and explain to him that he is kicking. He proceeds to get irate and screaming but we kicked at the beginning of the game.

Coach we tried to talk you out of that one.

[FLAHL]

During the coin toss the head coach of the visiting team said he would join the coin toss, so we advised the home coach and we had both coaches out there. It went something like this:

A couple of things:
1) Tell the coach - "Sorry coach, captains on the field only."  You have rule book support for that.
2) The U and I both ask the captains before we take them on the field - "What are you going to do if you win the toss?"  If they say "kick" we suggest that maybe they want to defer.  They usually do.
3) When coaches or administrators ask us for something unusual, we like to be accommodating if we can.  As is often the case, "no good deed goes unpunished."

[UTchad]

A couple of things:
1) Tell the coach - "Sorry coach, captains on the field only."  You have rule book support for that.
2) The U and I both ask the captains before we take them on the field - "What are you going to do if you win the toss?"  If they say "kick" we suggest that maybe they want to defer.  They usually do.
3) When coaches or administrators ask us for something unusual, we like to be accommodating if we can.  As is often the case, "no good deed goes unpunished."

Thanks for the response comments to your points:

1. We have been asked that IF the coaches want to join the coin toss to allow them to do so, for sportsmanship reasons. 9 times out of 10 the head coaches never join.
2. We always ask the players also what they want to do assuming they win. This one really threw us for a loop.
3. Exactly!

[SCHSref]

In JV, I wouldn't allow them to make that mistake. I would never ask if they wanted to kick. I believe that is akin to not giving the coach/captain the best options for penalty enforcement.

[Ralph Damren]

We bring the head coaches out with the captains for the coin toss. The coaches shake hands with each other and opposing captains. The white hat with then ask of the coaches: "Do you both agree to play by the NFHS sportsmanship code? " The coaches will then respond : "Ayuh,'spect so." or something there such. This covers 1-1-5 and we been doing this since this rule change several years ago. It is a state mandate and has been without incident. We then dismiss the coaches to their respective sidelines and begin the coin toss. To the winning captain, I'll ask : "Do you want to DEFER.......?" 

 

[FLAHL]

We're similar, except for the coaches on the field.  We ask about sportsmanship and being legally equipped in our 1:1 meetings with the coaches.

If the team that I spoke to on the sidelines wins the toss, i confirm their choice rather than provide choices again.  "You want to defer, right?" or "You want the ball, right?"  If the other team wins, I ask "do you want to receive or defer?" and my U listens carefully as he's already asked them that question before they come out.  If the winning team defers, I just ask the other captain "You want the ball, right?" and then back to the first team "Which way do you want to kick?"

Had a minor issue with a JV captain last year.  He won, and elected to kick.  I said "you mean defer, right?"  He said "No, kick."  I said "If you kick now, you'll kick again to start the 2nd half.  If you defer now, you'll get the ball to start the second half.  Do you want to defer?"  He changed his mind.  The other captain told his coach what happened and that coach got a little bit testy.  All I had to say was "I wouldn't let your player make that mistake either" and that was the end of it.

[bbeagle]

Many times, I've heard the coach tell the captain that 'we want to DEFER.' Defer is such an odd word outside football, and many times the kid has not heard that word before. He just heard a 'D' word. 'Def .... something'

Now, when he loses the toss and the other team defers, he says the only 'D' word he can think of 'Defense'. Sounds like what the coach said.

So what I do is I ask the winning captain: Do you want the ball now or for the 2nd half kickoff?
If he says anything other than 'We want the ball', I tell him, 'You want the ball 2nd half, right?'

If he deferred, I tell the other team 'you're getting the ball. Ok?' ... then let the other team choose the direction they're defending.

I put an 'X' next to the team receiving the kickoff on my score card. No reason to write 'won' and 'defer' for one team, then 'lost' and 'receive' for the other team. Why anything more complicated, unless the teams DO choose different options.

Now, if a team is adamant they want to kick, or choose a side to defend as their first option, I'll try to talk them out of it. If they still want one of those options, I'll explain it to the coach. Only after all that will I allow a team the possibility to kick twice. But it will be very apparent that this is what they want.

Starting a game on the wrong foot can impact the rest of the game, especially the start of the 3rd quarter and the remainder of the half. We look like jerks. I had a few games where referees have done this when I was on their crew. 'A teaching moment' they said. It was chaos the 2nd half. Not fun. Don't make problems if you don't have to.

[AlUpstateNY]

I'm sure the objective is to help insure the Captains make the appropriate decisions for their team, as instructed by their Coach.

I've found the following helps reduce the risk of unnecessary confusion; 

Instruct each sideline official, who will escort a Team Captain to the coin toss to ask the following direct questions to the "talking" Captain, (at the sideline IN THE PRESENCE OF THE HEAD COACH)

a:"Captain, if you win the toss, what decision will you make?"
b:" If your opponent wins the toss, AND DEFERS, what decision will you make?"

If there is any confusion about choices, between the Captain and his Coach, correction can take place on the sideline, before the toss begins.

It's no GUARANTEE confusion will not follow, but the risk is reduced and "WE" know what the consensus intention was.

[red viking]

I ask the winner of the coin toss "receive or defer?" Avoids that problem. If the coach comes back to me later and insists that he really wants to kickoff to start both halves I'll change it later and the other coach will be happy with that.

[CalhounLJ]

We don't have this problem in MS, as the coaches are the ones who participate in the coin toss. I turn to the winner and say, "Coach you have options. Do you want to kick, receive, defend a particular goal, or defer your options to the second half?" I go with the first thing that comes out of his mouth...

[bossman72]

I ask the winner of the coin toss "receive or defer?" Avoids that problem. If the coach comes back to me later and insists that he really wants to kickoff to start both halves I'll change it later and the other coach will be happy with that.

Exactly the way you should do it.

[bama_stripes]

I ask the winner of the coin toss "receive or defer?" Avoids that problem. If the coach comes back to me later and insists that he really wants to kickoff to start both halves I'll change it later and the other coach will be happy with that.

I go one step further:  Since I’ve already asked the coach what he wants to do during our pre-game, my first option to his captain is the one he really wants.  So, sometimes I’ll say “receive or defer”, and other times I’ll say “defer or receive”.

[FLAHL]

i read a post on here a while ago that said they ask both coaches in pregame what they want to do if they win.  If one says "receive" and the other says "defer" they both get what they want and there's no need to even have a coin toss.  We don't do that, but it's an interesting idea.

[Matt]

At one of my JV games I asked the head coach what his choice was it they won the toss. His response was that he wanted to kick so i asked him if he realized that he would also be kicking to start the second half, he said yep. Of course they won the toss. First of many questionable he made that day and they proceeded to get the crap beat out of them.

[BIG DON]

had a game this past Friday night where I asked both coaches in my pregame meeting what they wanted to do if they won the toss.
Home coach said he wanted the ball tonight because of the weather that was moving in

The visiting coach said it would be a game time decision, but however if it was raining he would probably kick.

As luck would have it at 6:30 when we were going to the field a thunderstorm started, and it was the only cell in our part of the state right over the stadium
Kick off would be delayed,  as fast as the storm blew up it died out they same  So we ended up with a 15 minute late start.

As we let the teams back out on the field for a quick warm-up I asked the visiting coach if he had made his decision he said since the field is wet he said he would kick, I then informed him you know by kicking at the start you would be kicking at the start of the 3rd quarter as well. He looked at me with this funny look and all of a sudden his light blub turned on and said I mean we will defer

In the past I have had coaches that want to kick both halves and I even had one coach tell me since we received the first half we will kick to start the 3rd
 

[SouthGARef]

I go one step further:  Since I’ve already asked the coach what he wants to do during our pre-game, my first option to his captain is the one he really wants.  So, sometimes I’ll say “receive or defer”, and other times I’ll say “defer or receive”.

And I go one step further. Since I've already asked the coach, I ask a leading question. "You've won the toss. You want to defer, correct?"

[fudilligas]

i read a post on here a while ago that said they ask both coaches in pregame what they want to do if they win.  If one says "receive" and the other says "defer" they both get what they want and there's no need to even have a coin toss.  We don't do that, but it's an interesting idea.

been doing this for years....at the pregame with the coaches i ask what they want to do if they win the toss...if one defers and the other wants the ball i will go to each coach and tell them what they are going to do and see in which direction the coach wants to kick...both coaches now know how the game will start and have already gotten the respective teams set....i still bring out the captains for the "ceremony" but don't toss a coin...i confirm with the captains what they want to do and place their backs to the respective end zone...i give the receiving signal so the press box knows how we are starting.....there was even a time when i pretended to flip a coin and said the receiving team won the toss....the expression on the players faces was priceless

[VALJ]

"Red captain, you have won the toss. Do you want to defer or do you want to receive?"

[CalhounLJ]

"Red captain, you have won the toss. Do you want to defer or do you want to receive?"

+1 Best option I've read

[prab]

Many good suggestions here, all aimed at avoiding the coin toss winner from choosing to kick and at some point thereafter finding out that they will probably kick to start the 2nd half too.  (Almost immediately after finding out that they will kick to start both halves, the officials will then be blamed for not explaining the options in a clear manner.)

In my entire career, I have had EXACTLY ONE coach knowingly choose to kick of to start the 2nd half, after the other team had won the toss and elected to receive.  There have been a FEW instances, and none recently, where the team that won the toss elected to kick.  In each of these cases it turned into a melancholy situation.

Question, at what level do we simply allow a coach and/or captain to live with a bad choice most likely caused by a lack of knowledge of the rules?

[CalhounLJ]

We don't have this problem in MS, as the coaches are the ones who participate in the coin toss. I turn to the winner and say, "Coach you have options. Do you want to kick, receive, defend a particular goal, or defer your options to the second half?" I go with the first thing that comes out of his mouth...

This is my answer, prab. I figure the coach is a grown man capable of either making the right decision or living with the wrong one...

[bawags06]

In our area, it is standard procedure to have the coaches and captains present at the coin toss for every level. At the varsity level, the official coin toss and decisions are made 30 minutes before kickoff. A symbolic coin toss is held 5 minutes before kickoff with only the captains--for the benefit of the press box, mostly--and no new decisions are made. Regardless of the level, it is the captains who speak for the team.

That said, most of our officials give the options to "Receive or defer to the second half." If anyone ever answered, "Kick" or "Defense" (leagues without live kicks) we are instructed to clarify once. "You understand if you choose to kick, you will probably not have the option to receive in the second half, so you'll kick twice."--or something to that effect. Since the coach is right there, one time is all that is necessary at any level. If they insist after being reminded, it is now on them.

[prab]

CalhounLJ and bawags06, I like the way you handle this in your respective areas!  Unfortunately, in our area, coaches do not attend the coin toss. 

It is a long way from the sideline to the center of the field where the coin toss takes place.  Apparently, on rare occasions, during that walk, captains can forget that "defer" and "kick" are not synonymous.

[bawags06]

CalhounLJ and bawags06, I like the way you handle this in your respective areas!  Unfortunately, in our area, coaches do not attend the coin toss. 

It is a long way from the sideline to the center of the field where the coin toss takes place.  Apparently, on rare occasions, during that walk, captains can forget that "defer" and "kick" are not synonymous.

I like our reminder too because it's pretty clear. Most captains are bright enough--even if they forget the difference between "defer" and "kick"--to figure out that they don't want to kick to start both halves. I think that would solve the problem for 99 percent of coin tosses without the coaches present also.

[CalhounLJ]

On this note, there was one time in my career when the coach elected to kick both halves. Team A vs Team B for the North Half Championship. It was a rainy mess and the field was horrible. Team A won the toss, elected to receive. Team B kicked off and kept Team A bottled up deep on their end of the field the entire half. After the half, Team B's coach was like, "that worked so well, we are going to try it again." Sure enough, they elected to kick again, and their defense kept Team A from moving the ball. Team B's offense finally scored on the short field. Beat them 6-0.