What ya got?

[UTchad]

So yesterday I received a phone call and asked to fill in for a fellow official who came down with a flu bug.  It was a subvarsity game and I was asked to be the Umpire    My normal position is HL so I was kind of looking forward to it.  Anyways We have team A lining up to kick a field goal it is a long kick 45 yarder. Snap, hold, and kick are clean. But he does not have enough leg to get it there. B15 is standing at the 5 yard line.  He catches the ball at the 1 yard line, and BJ states that MOMENTUM carried him into the endzone, and he ran it back the distance 100 yards. No whistles. We got together and discussed the play and made a ruling. I am curious what ruling you would have made?

[VA Official]

A FG is just a punt that can score 3 points if it goes through the uprights. Momentum is perfectly applicable here. If the BJ said he caught it at the 1 YL and his momentum took him into the end zone, then it's all good 

[ncwingman]

If he possessed the ball at the 1, then carried it into the end zone (whether by momentum or not), then the kick did not cross the goal line -- as it ceased being a kick where he possessed the ball, in the field of play.

That's a good touchdown in my book.

[UTchad]

Yup you are both correct. Sadly and I hate to admit this the wrong decision was made on the field. After the TD scored I set the ball for FG, and the LJ came in and said it should be a touchback. So we all talked for a minute. White hat and I stated it was Touchdown. But BJ, and LJ both stated touchback. We went with it and went touchback. That play was bugging me the rest of the game. Thankfully at the time the kicking team was already up 45-7 and this had no impact on the outcome of the game.

[fudilligas]

it seems to me that after discussion the white says TD then it should be a TD......was it an experienced white hat or was it a a fairly new white that did not have confidence in his decision

[CalhounLJ]

Yup you are both correct. Sadly and I hate to admit this the wrong decision was made on the field. After the TD scored I set the ball for FG, and the LJ came in and said it should be a touchback. So we all talked for a minute. White hat and I stated it was Touchdown. But BJ, and LJ both stated touchback. We went with it and went touchback. That play was bugging me the rest of the game. Thankfully at the time the kicking team was already up 45-7 and this had no impact on the outcome of the game.

What was the basis for the BJ declaring it a Touchback? In the OP it was stated the BJ correctly ruled momentum. So he judged the ball caught at the one, carried in and out, and still ruled it a touchback?

[FLAHL]

it seems to me that after discussion the white says TD then it should be a TD......was it an experienced white hat or was it a a fairly new white that did not have confidence in his decision

That’s an interesting point. We’ve probably all worked with a WH who has a “my way or the highway” approach. I am happy to take input from the entire crew on tricky calls or situations that come up once a decade. I’m lucky to be with some of my crew for 10+ years and all of them for at least 4 years.  But we’re all on the same page that my vote is the deciding one if we can’t agree. I think that is part of the job. Picking up the tab if I end up being wrong is also part of the job.

[AlUpstateNY]

Risk ALWAYS accompanies Reward.  It simply is what it is.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, the only way a TB could occur was if the receiver was juggling the kick as the ball broke the goal line plane. It would have still been a kick then and dead when it arrived in the EZ.

WOW...a 5-man crew for sub-varsity !! In Maine we only use 3.

[ilyazhito]

So yesterday I received a phone call and asked to fill in for a fellow official who came down with a flu bug.  It was a subvarsity game and I was asked to be the Umpire    My normal position is HL so I was kind of looking forward to it.  Anyways We have team A lining up to kick a field goal it is a long kick 45 yarder. Snap, hold, and kick are clean. But he does not have enough leg to get it there. B15 is standing at the 5 yard line.  He catches the ball at the 1 yard line, and BJ states that MOMENTUM carried him into the endzone, and he ran it back the distance 100 yards. No whistles. We got together and discussed the play and made a ruling. I am curious what ruling you would have made?

Wouldn't this entire discussion be irrelevant, since Texas whether UIL or TAPPS) uses NCAA rules?  I assumed the game was in Texas, unless the UT in your name refers to the University of Tennessee.

[bama_stripes]

Wouldn't this entire discussion be irrelevant, since Texas whether UIL or TAPPS) uses NCAA rules?  I assumed the game was in Texas, unless the UT in your name refers to the University of Tennessee.

It could just as likely be UTah.  Don’t be a wisenheimer.

[TampaSteve]

It could just as likely be UTah.  Don’t be a wisenheimer.

A Bama guy who doesn't think 'tennessee' if he sees UT? 

[UTchad]

I reside in Utah.

Yes 5 man mechanics on JV and Varsity games. 4 man on Sophomore, Freshman, and little league.

As to the white hat,  he is a great official who we sadly just had a lapse of judgment. Him and I are more seasoned officials and it falls on the crew that we missed this call. I have no good justification for why we agreed to go with it. The best answer I can give is that it was 3 on 2. Sadly the other 3 were wrong. We have since all sat down as a crew discussed the call, and now all agree that we got it wrong. The game was a blow out and this lapse of judgment had no impact on the final outcome of the game.

Just wanted to post this to bring up discussion and basically use it as a reminder to SLOW DOWN after a big play, make sure your ruling is the right ruling and move on.

[CalhounLJ]

I'm hearing you on the slow down part. Last Friday night we were having a terrific game. Score was close, teams were clean. We had a 3rd and 10, 3 yard run with a flag for illegal formation. I got on the radio, told the HL to ask the coach what he wanted to do. He accepted the penalty, and as we were marking it off, the coach comes unglued!! wait a minute! that's not right. I wanted to decline the penalty. after a rather lengthy discussion, I discovered my HL had given him the wrong down and distance when discussing his options. So, we gave him a redo... now the other coach is mad. 
If we had just taken our time and met before we gave him the options, I'm sure everybody would have been in a better mood...

[AlUpstateNY]

Sometimes Coaches do understand.  Years ago, transferring into Indiana, my 1st Varsity assignment was as Referee, and I was somewhat "up tempo".  The opening KO was a deep line drive, splitting the receivers, that bounced at about the R-15, headed for the EZ.  Unfortunately, I misread the lines and loudly and clearly sounded my whistle as the ball crossed the 5YL.

As soon as the ball heard my whistle, it immediately dropped down and settled in the field of play, with receivers and defenders stopping looking at me.  Instinctively, I picked up the ball, ran up to the R-HC and blurted out, "Sorry Coach, I F**cked up, we'll start again"  gave the ball to my HL (4 man crew) and proceeded to the K-HC, where I was somewhat more diplomatic.  His response was essentially the same, and we re-kicked, and I remember it as a great game.  Nothing else was said during, or as far as I know, after the game, and the crew all had a good laugh at our "post game review" (as expected, my treat)

Sometime we all forget, we're just part of a really great High School level GAME.

[bama_stripes]

A Bama guy who doesn't think 'tennessee' if he sees UT?

Can’t imagine anyone bragging about a ut fan right now.......

[CalhounLJ]

I think the Utes are doing ok: 2-2 so far... 

[bbeagle]

As soon as the ball heard my whistle, it immediately dropped down and settled in the field of play

Many referees don't fully respect how truly amazing the ball's ears are.

I've recalled times in my games past where the ball has anticipated a whistle and quit playing right before said whistle, by dropping to the ground.