Author Topic: Disconcerting Signals by the Defense  (Read 4103 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Suudy

  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Disconcerting Signals by the Defense
« on: October 25, 2018, 05:53:33 PM »
Looking at AR 7-1-5(IV):

"IV. Linebacker B56 is stationary within one yard beyond the neutral zone. As the offense is calling its snap signals, B56 feints toward the line in an obvious attempt to induce a false start by the offense. RULING: Dead-ball foul, delay of game. Five-yard penalty at the succeeding spot.​"

Can you give me an example of movement that would be "an obvious attempt to induce a false start by the offense"?  I'm drawing a blank.  Stunting and stemming are fine.  What kind of movement could be construed as a disconcerting signal by the defense?

Online ElvisLives

  • *
  • Posts: 2688
  • FAN REACTION: +126/-122
  • The rules are there if you need them.
Re: Disconcerting Signals by the Defense
« Reply #1 on: October 25, 2018, 09:07:54 PM »
This is NOT a disconcerting signal.  It is what it is: an abrupt / exaggerated movement intended to cause a false start. That's how the announcement would go."Before the ball could be sapped, delay of game, number 55, defense; he made an abrupt movement intended to cause a false start.  That's a 5 yard penalty, second down."

There does not need to be any reaction by Team A.  If we see such a movement, it is a foul. Period. Don't wait for a reaction.

A Disconcerting Signal is a different foul altogether.  And, like the abrupt movement to cause a false start, it does not require a reaction by Team A, either. If we hear signals that we know dang well are intended to cause Team A to false start, that's a foul.  Period.  Don't wait for a reaction.

Lots of teams are coached to do both, under the guise of either just "making a football related move" (caca), or just making a call for the line to "make a football related move" (more caca). 

Example:  as the snap is imminent, a D-tackle (or many), in a four point stance within one yard of the NZ, abruptly falls and rolls to one side, and quickly rises back to a four-point stance. More often than not, this causes an O-tackle or O-guard to start too soon.  They'll claim that he's just moving into a gap or something.  Baloney.  Don't buy that bovine scat.  This is 9-1-5-a-4, a movement intended to cause a false start (with or without a reaction by Team A).  (If this was legal, why do you not see it being done on Saturdays?)

Example:  as the snap is imminent, linebacker B55 abruptly and sharply shouts, "MOVE." Maybe some defensive players move, maybe they don't.  But, more often than not, this causes an/some o-linemen to start early.  Again, they'll claim this is just their normal defensive signal.  Baloney.  Don't buy that bovine scat.  This is 9-1-5-a-5, Disconcerting Signals (with or without a reaction by Team A).  (Again, if this was legal, why do you not see it being used on Saturdays?)

And don't fall into the trap of "... but they didn't move!"  Doesn't matter.  Both are fouls, with or without a reaction by Team A.

We just need to have the cajones to make these calls.

Robert

Offline JasonTX

  • *
  • Posts: 2751
  • FAN REACTION: +106/-58
Re: Disconcerting Signals by the Defense
« Reply #2 on: October 25, 2018, 11:17:24 PM »
This is NOT a disconcerting signal.  It is what it is: an abrupt / exaggerated movement intended to cause a false start. That's how the announcement would go."Before the ball could be sapped, delay of game, number 55, defense; he made an abrupt movement intended to cause a false start.  That's a 5 yard penalty, second down."

There does not need to be any reaction by Team A.  If we see such a movement, it is a foul. Period. Don't wait for a reaction.

A Disconcerting Signal is a different foul altogether.  And, like the abrupt movement to cause a false start, it does not require a reaction by Team A, either. If we hear signals that we know dang well are intended to cause Team A to false start, that's a foul.  Period.  Don't wait for a reaction.

Lots of teams are coached to do both, under the guise of either just "making a football related move" (caca), or just making a call for the line to "make a football related move" (more caca). 

Example:  as the snap is imminent, a D-tackle (or many), in a four point stance within one yard of the NZ, abruptly falls and rolls to one side, and quickly rises back to a four-point stance. More often than not, this causes an O-tackle or O-guard to start too soon.  They'll claim that he's just moving into a gap or something.  Baloney.  Don't buy that bovine scat.  This is 9-1-5-a-4, a movement intended to cause a false start (with or without a reaction by Team A).  (If this was legal, why do you not see it being done on Saturdays?)

Example:  as the snap is imminent, linebacker B55 abruptly and sharply shouts, "MOVE." Maybe some defensive players move, maybe they don't.  But, more often than not, this causes an/some o-linemen to start early.  Again, they'll claim this is just their normal defensive signal.  Baloney.  Don't buy that bovine scat.  This is 9-1-5-a-5, Disconcerting Signals (with or without a reaction by Team A).  (Again, if this was legal, why do you not see it being used on Saturdays?)

And don't fall into the trap of "... but they didn't move!"  Doesn't matter.  Both are fouls, with or without a reaction by Team A.

We just need to have the cajones to make these calls.

Robert

We have been calling this "MOVE" crap all year long.  The argument always is that they aren't mimicking the snap count.  Sorry coach, I don't care what their snap count is, it's the fact that the defense is using that voice deflection intentionally to try and create a false start.   ^flag

Offline Suudy

  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Disconcerting Signals by the Defense
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2018, 12:20:04 AM »
We have been calling this "MOVE" crap all year long.  The argument always is that they aren't mimicking the snap count.  Sorry coach, I don't care what their snap count is, it's the fact that the defense is using that voice deflection intentionally to try and create a false start.   ^flag
Right.  This is why I asked if absent any verbal component how AR 7-1-5 can be applied. Elvis gave a good example of the roll.  Or if such activity is unusual.  But if a team makes a regular habit of such shifts, such as WSU, unless there is a verbal component I donít see it.  I posted on the other thread a link to a game where these shifts are a regular part of the defense.

https://youtu.be/pzWRzeBornA

Offline Suudy

  • *
  • Posts: 62
  • FAN REACTION: +1/-1
  • Without officials... it is only recess.
Re: Disconcerting Signals by the Defense
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2018, 12:27:08 AM »
This is NOT a disconcerting signal.  It is what it is: an abrupt / exaggerated movement intended to cause a false start. That's how the announcement would go."Before the ball could be sapped, delay of game, number 55, defense; he made an abrupt movement intended to cause a false start.  That's a 5 yard penalty, second down."
You are right. My bad.  I was conflating movement with signals.  I was asking about movement absent and verbal component.