3-4-3 with Live ball/Dead ball

[sj]

There's been good discussion on this one.

A 2/14 @ B32. 4th quarter. Team B trails by one point. QB A12 scrambles to his right and is looking to throw to A88. B31 is holding A88 at the time A12 is looking at him. Before A12 can throw the ball he is tackled at the B35.  The clock is stopped at 01:46. Well after the play is dead A77 shoves B93 to the ground.

Does B have the option to put it on the snap?

[bctgp]

Yes, 3-4-3 does not specify that it had to be a live-ball foul for the offended team to get the clock start on the RFP or snap per their choice.

"If the game clock is stopped to complete a penalty for a foul by the team ahead
in the score (or either team if the score is tied) inside the last two minutes of a
half, it will start on the snap, at the option of the offended team."

[TxBJ]

Yes, 3-4-3 does not specify that it had to be a live-ball foul for the offended team to get the clock start on the RFP or snap per their choice.

"If the game clock is stopped to complete a penalty for a foul by the team ahead
in the score (or either team if the score is tied) inside the last two minutes of a
half, it will start on the snap, at the option of the offended team."

But the clock wasn’t stopped to complete the penalty for a foul by the team ahead in the score. It was stopped at the end of the play to complete the penalty for the holding foul by B. Then A fouled after the play.

[ElvisLives]

Hold on.

Was the holding foul on Team B called?  If so, then, by rule, the clock was stopped to complete that penalty.  The dead-ball shoving foul occurred after the clock was stopped. That being the case, I believe the governing foul is the holding by Team B.  Since Team B was behind in the score, 3-4-3 does not apply.  The subsequent foul by A has no direct affect on the game clock or the play clock, since the clock was already stopped for the Team B foul.  So, the clock is governed by normal rules, which means the clock starts on the Referee's signal.

Now, in the absence of the Defensive Holding foul, yes, B would get an option as to when the clock starts, due to the Team A UNR, for which the clock would have stopped.

Robert

[Clear Lake ref]

But the clock would have started again post holding, only to subsequently stop.  Would that matter?

[ElvisLives]

But the clock would have started again post holding, only to subsequently stop.  Would that matter?

Confused.  "...only to subsequently stop."  Que?

Robert

[Clear Lake ref]

Meaning if you look at each act independently, the holding penalty would have resulted in the clock being started. After that, a foul occurred that would otherwise give the choice.

[Kalle]

Meaning if you look at each act independently, the holding penalty would have resulted in the clock being started. After that, a foul occurred that would otherwise give the choice.

If the shove occurred after the holding penalty was completed then yes, the clock stopped for the (dead-ball) penalty, and team B would get the option. But if the shove occurs while the clock is already stopped, it has no effect on the subsequent clock status.

[Morningrise]

But the clock would have started again post holding, only to subsequently stop.  Would that matter?

The clock would have started after the RFP. Team A's dead-ball foul happened before the RFP. Therefore the clock was already stopped at the time of Team A's foul. The clock was not stopped to complete Team A's penalty.