Author Topic: Announcing Numbers  (Read 1967 times)

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2018, 01:29:43 PM »
I'll have to do some research, but I know we were using microphones in 1999, when I started in FBS (D-1A).  My personal first use of a microphone was my first FBS (D1-A) game as a Referee in 2002.

Regarding the use of microphones in High School, announcing numbers "trickled down" years ago.  Been doing it in Texas for about a decade, now, with no ramifications, repercussions or lawsuits related to announcements.   

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Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2018, 03:01:01 PM »
To preface, I dont care if they announce the numbers or not.
The points are fine points, however, announcing numbers is critical to having 5 fouls (scorekeeping) for BB vs football where there is no limit (sans USC)
We don't announce the numbers over the PA; the announcer does.

Offline BIG DON

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2018, 07:00:15 PM »
NCAA started announcing numbers around 2005.

Not saying you are wrong but I could have sworn in the early to mid 80's if the Referees had Mic's in College that Numbers were announced 
do or do not there is no try

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2018, 10:15:03 PM »
Referee microphones became recommended in 1991.  They became STRONGLY recommended in 2003.  The strong recommendation for lapel type microphones appeared in 2008.  Refereeís microphones became mandatory in 2010 (lapel type still strongly recommended).
Now, just when in there we began announcing numbers, I canít say, but Iím sure it was well before 1999, because it was already being done when I broke into FBS in 1999.  Surprisingly, it isnít prescribed in the CCA manuals until 2005 (maybe 2004, but I canít find my copy of the 2004 manual).

Not certain when the UIL (Texas) approved use of refereeís mics for their High School contests, but it has been since the mid-2000s, at least.  Announcing numbers was not permitted at first, but the UIL permitted that many years ago.

The press box folks need the numbers, for record keeping and media reporting.  Because of this thread, Iíve asked a number of friends and other non-officials if they pay attention to announcements of playerís numbers.  A majority say yes, but that majority are largely men.  Women donít seem to care.  But, none of those are parentís of any current players.  Not a scientific poll, but something of an indicator, anyway.  Some folks need them, some folks want them, some folks donít care.

So, thereís the history, and additional reasons for announcing numbers.  Iím sure that wonít be good enough for some folks, but, we can only lead a horse to water.

What is it the young kids say?  Peace out... ;)

Robert

« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 05:47:16 AM by ElvisLives »

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2018, 07:28:35 AM »
IN a previous life I believe I was a town crier....you know, the guy that yelled, "THREE O'CLOCK AND ALL IS WELL!" . I became a white hat before ref's mic and PA announcers. I always yelled the foul, guilty party and down/distance to both sides. I always felt that the coach would want to know : (1) the guilty party, (2) that we saw the foul well enough to recognize the guilty party. I've never had any complaints or viewed players seeming upset with being "turned in". Locally, we leave it up to the white hat, but I strongly feel the guilty player's coach should know.

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2018, 09:03:57 AM »
Excuse me "bossman72". the suggestions you reference (" Once you point toward a team, all the suspense is gone and people don't pay attention to your real announcement"), ("it harms no one to give the number, and it is prescribed in the officiating manuals for NCAA football, and for UIL (Texas) football (and, I suppose, the NFL").  ("That is something Walt Anderson ( a respected NFL official) preached in clinics".) ("Say the Foul - pause - say the Number - pause (let the suspense build. ("Granted, many of those minds are watching on TV, and only a small percentage of the sum total of all American football games are televised.  But, it harms no one to give the number, and it is prescribed in the officiating manuals for NCAA football, and for UIL (Texas) football (and, I suppose, the NFL), seem to reference that the practice is appropriate for NCAA and/or NFL, and should therefore "trickle down" to NFHS (which sometimes makes sense, but in many other instances DOES NOT.

As for, "Definitely adds credibility to our call, especially when it's not out in the open." I would respectfully suggest that spectators (or even Coaches) who "require" or demand "a number" to confirm credibility, are not worthy of special consideration or appeasement. 

As previously suggested, if this is something you find it appropriate or helpful to do, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition preventing you, personally, from doing it - but suggesting, " but, it is clear by this thread that the majority of officials do" sounds more like "wishful thinking". Should you have some practically demonstrable reasons for doing so, I'd be happy to seriously consider your suggestions.
Rambling and using bold/italicized/underlined text doesn't make you any more right.

Clearly you are in the minority, and that's your right. But to act like the majority doesn't disagree with you is just ignorant. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2018, 10:47:10 AM »
Thanks, Zebrastripes, for clearing up what MY experiences "should" suggest to ME.  Apparently, I'm not as aware, or concerned, about whatever  "the majority" (you have designated) has decided, as you seem to think I should be.

As previously suggested, if you think the practice of announcing numbers is appropriate, knock yourself out, there doesn't seem to be any prohibition in doing so.  All you need to do is make your own decision as however you see fit.  You really don't need my permission, or approval to do so (much like I'm not seeking your approval, or permission, when I decide to use, "Rambling and using bold/italicized/underlined text").

Don't forget, it's entirely, and exclusively up to you alone, to decide whether to pay any attention to anything I suggest, or totally ignore anything/everything I might offer.

Offline js in sc

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2018, 11:04:11 AM »
Forgive my seeming ignorance in this matter, but in the overall scheme of things, what difference does it make whether you announce the numbers or not.  If your mechanics dictate you must, then go ahead.  If not, then it is a personal choice.  (Our state dictates you do not.)  We do need to inform the coaches.  I do not see the need for personal attacks and harsh words about this seemingly insignificant matter.   ???

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2018, 01:20:35 PM »
Forgive my seeming ignorance in this matter, but in the overall scheme of things, what difference does it make whether you announce the numbers or not.  If your mechanics dictate you must, then go ahead.  If not, then it is a personal choice.  (Our state dictates you do not.)  We do need to inform the coaches.  I do not see the need for personal attacks and harsh words about this seemingly insignificant matter.   ???
The point is that there is no valid reason not to do it and many reasons to do it. The historical reason it was avoided was in order to not embarrass the players, but that has been shown to be a bunch of hogwash with rare exceptions.

In the case of the one dissenter, he has failed to provide a reason why we shouldn't announce numbers other than "we've never done it."

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2018, 02:23:37 PM »
How truly fortunate we are, to be blessed with someone to officially declare what reasons (concerns, ideas, etc.) are actually valid, and which are simply, "a bunch of hogwash".

Thanks for advising we all can simply ignore "historical reason".  Bothering to understanding, consider, comprehend and reflect on previous "reasons" can be so tiring.  It would be so nice, and maybe even helpful. if someone could simply state and articulate even some of the, "many reasons" now demanding the necessity of this practice at the NFHS level, that unfortunately seems vague and unnecessary to those of us (guilty of perhaps smelling/drinking the wrong coffee)  who see little, if any, beneficial or practical value to requiring this detail being shared with spectators.

Who knows, maybe even the reason, ""we've never done it.", is simply because nobody has ever concluded a valid necessity to start.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 02:29:04 PM by AlUpstateNY »

Online TampaSteve

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2018, 04:36:40 PM »
Forgive my seeming ignorance in this matter, but in the overall scheme of things, what difference does it make whether you announce the numbers or not.  If your mechanics dictate you must, then go ahead.  If not, then it is a personal choice.  (Our state dictates you do not.)  We do need to inform the coaches.  I do not see the need for personal attacks and harsh words about this seemingly insignificant matter.   ???
what he said.

Offline TxSkyBolt

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2018, 08:27:11 PM »
How truly fortunate we are, to be blessed with someone to officially declare what reasons (concerns, ideas, etc.) are actually valid, and which are simply, "a bunch of hogwash".

Thanks for advising we all can simply ignore "historical reason".  Bothering to understanding, consider, comprehend and reflect on previous "reasons" can be so tiring.  It would be so nice, and maybe even helpful. if someone could simply state and articulate even some of the, "many reasons" now demanding the necessity of this practice at the NFHS level, that unfortunately seems vague and unnecessary to those of us (guilty of perhaps smelling/drinking the wrong coffee)  who see little, if any, beneficial or practical value to requiring this detail being shared with spectators.

Who knows, maybe even the reason, ""we've never done it.", is simply because nobody has ever concluded a valid necessity to start.




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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2018, 07:24:55 AM »
Out of senile curiosity I went back in time to find the last topic that drew as many responses. I finally found it :

APRIL 27, 2016
TOPIC : "BRADY DID IT - DEFLATEGATE"
RESPONSES : 82

THIS IS CURRENTLY AT 61, RULESMAN LOCKED THE ABOVE AT 82, MAYBE THIS TOPIC DESERVES A SIMULAR FATE... pi1eOn hEaDbAnG :puke:

Offline bossman72

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2018, 08:39:39 AM »
Out of senile curiosity I went back in time to find the last topic that drew as many responses. I finally found it :

APRIL 27, 2016
TOPIC : "BRADY DID IT - DEFLATEGATE"
RESPONSES : 82

THIS IS CURRENTLY AT 61, RULESMAN LOCKED THE ABOVE AT 82, MAYBE THIS TOPIC DESERVES A SIMULAR FATE... pi1eOn hEaDbAnG :puke:



I can get it over 82:

We NEED a 40 sec play clock in high school.


Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #64 on: December 06, 2018, 07:05:54 AM »
As for, "Definitely adds credibility to our call, especially when it's not out in the open." I would respectfully suggest that spectators (or even Coaches) who "require" or demand "a number" to confirm credibility, are not worthy of special consideration or appeasement.

I donít worry about spectators.  Coaches are a different matter ó they need numbers for their film review and other coaching purposes.

Around here, where high school football is taken very seriously, a crew who canít (or wonít) provide the number of a fouling player gets downgraded very quickly in a coachís eyes.

BLACK BEARS RULE!

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #65 on: December 06, 2018, 03:08:02 PM »
I donít worry about spectators.  Coaches are a different matter ó they need numbers for their film review and other coaching purposes.


Providing Coaches with the offending player's number is a standard, automatic procedure.  In those exceedingly RARE situations where a number may not be available, Coaches usually understand and accept the rarity of the situation, without a lot of complaint or comment.

Offline UTchad

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Re: Announcing Numbers
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2018, 02:23:30 PM »
We report numbers to the coaches whenever possible. The best though is when calling illegal formation.

Coach screams, "NUMBER!!!"

Coach not sure but you didn't have 7 on the line.

coach, "Well who was off?"

5 guys coach.