Author Topic: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019  (Read 7503 times)

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Offline SCHSref

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From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« on: September 09, 2019, 12:29:57 PM »
HC told me to not allow him to call another timeout the rest of the game. They were up 40-0.

Several minutes later, their running back scored a 60 yd touchdown and spiked the ball so hard that I thought he threw it up in the air. Three  ^flag immediately come out. I ran over to the coach and told him what the deal was. He then asked if I could take the TD away.

This is the same coach that was complaining about the losing team getting too much time on the play clock. He started yelling, "23, 24, 25! That's delay of game!" I didn't have the heart to tell him it was a 40 second play clock for that particular down.
If you didn't see it, you can't call it

Offline ncwingman

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2019, 08:22:35 PM »
I have to say that I don't understand why spiking the ball after a TD constitutes UNS -- as long as it's not at an opponent or overly dramatic and choreographed.

They're kids. They want to celebrate. Why not let them as long as it's a positive celebration?

I don't feel strongly enough to petition to make a rule change, but I understand why they'd be upset when I throw the flag.

Offline Etref

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2019, 09:24:31 PM »
Youthful exuberance is a good thing, but if we let some things go it doesn’t take long before everything goes wrong.

Just my $.02
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Offline SCHSref

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2019, 02:15:30 PM »
Had this last night in a JV game. My position is BJ and there was an incomplete pass and the coach of A was upset I did not throw the flag for DPI. It would have been difficult for me to since the defender had his back to me and I could not see his or the receiver's hands. The coach told me that I should have called that and why did I not. Then he told me that I put my hand on the flag but didn't throw it and why did I do that. I've never had a coach tell me such specificities about something of this nature before. The LJ started laughing and said, "Coach! That is amazing! You saw everything didn't you? You saw the pass interference, the hand on the flag, him not throw it. You saw that much? Wow!"

Coach turned around and went to the sideline. This was during an injury timeout.
If you didn't see it, you can't call it

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2019, 03:57:19 PM »
I have to say that I don't understand why spiking the ball after a TD constitutes UNS -- as long as it's not at an opponent or overly dramatic and choreographed.

The REASON is simple; Nobody wants to spend the rest of their careers arguing with coaches and players about what the fine line differences are between, "overly dramatic and choreographed" and "a positive celebration" (that either way demeans an opponent). Look at what's evolved since Homer Jones first forcibly dropped a ball in an endzone, where mature adults play the game.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2019, 10:04:24 AM »
The REASON is simple; Nobody wants to spend the rest of their careers arguing with coaches and players about what the fine line differences are between, "overly dramatic and choreographed" and "a positive celebration" (that either way demeans an opponent). Look at what's evolved since Homer Jones first forcibly dropped a ball in an endzone, where mature adults play the game.

Instead, we spend the rest of our careers arguing with coaches about whether the holding was at the point of attack and had an influence on the play.

We're always thinking about whether the actions violate the spirit of the rule and not just the letter before throwing a flag -- but spiking the ball is somehow too much to explain?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2019, 11:26:08 AM »
HUMP DAY TRIVIA : Who "invented" the TD spike  ??? ??? ?

HINT : My favorite team's player when the Patriots were still in the minor league called AFL.....then along came Broadway Joe  8] !

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2019, 01:02:09 PM »
HUMP DAY TRIVIA : Who "invented" the TD spike  ??? ??? ?

HINT : My favorite team's player when the Patriots were still in the minor league called AFL.....then along came Broadway Joe  8] !
I hesitate to question your recollection, Ralph, but as far as the major leagues (NFL) go, that designation is usually connected to Homer Jones (NY Giants)

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2019, 11:55:47 AM »
You nailed  aWaRd it, Al. Sorry about your Yanks, but you still have the Jets to cheer for  ;D  !

Offline walkintall

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 08:44:36 AM »
It's been several weeks ago now, but I wore the white hat for the very first time. It was a JV game.

Offense ran around the right end. As he's turning the corner, A88 commits a blindside block in front of the line judge. I throw my flag. LJ throws his flag. The A coach is already griping. A goes on to score, but of course, it's coming back. I go to my LJ and he says he has BIB. Since it was closer to him, that's what I go with. Coach starts hollering, "That was NOT a block in the back!" I said, "Well coach, my flag was for a 15 yarder, so I decided to go with BIB." He's standing there staring at me with his arms crossed. He says it again, "It was not a block in the back!" Now, the crowd is starting to yell with the coach when the coach also yells these words, "It was a blindside block, but it WAS NOT a block in the back." I looked at him and said, "You're right coach..." Then, I told my ump to march off 15 yards.


Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 05:46:07 PM »
You nailed  aWaRd it, Al. Sorry about your Yanks, but you still have the Jets to cheer for  ;D  !

Sadly, not the first time I've had to resort to "Wait till next year", but this past year has provided a little more potential future sunshine than some recent years.  Like always, I'll just have to wait and see if the sun keeps shining, or those (always lurking) dark clouds sneak back in.  The Jets are not my concern.  I was born a Giant fan, and expect to go out that way, but I did hear a rumor Sam Huff is thinking of making a comeback, and is talking to LT.

To borrow a phrase from the NY Lottery, "Hey, you never know....".  Excuse me, the doorbell is ringing, could it be Publishers Clearing House.....

Offline VALJ

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2019, 11:30:25 AM »
Now, the crowd is starting to yell with the coach when the coach also yells these words, "It was a blindside block, but it WAS NOT a block in the back." I looked at him and said, "You're right coach..." Then, I told my ump to march off 15 yards.

"OK, coach, you win this one.  We'll go five more yards."

Offline BIG DON

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2019, 02:24:23 PM »
This happened right in front of the home team bench

Home team on Defense when the Offensive player made a good take down tackle on the defensive end So I have a flag for Holding, well the offensive player laid on top for a little bit longer the the defensive play thought he should and pushed the offense player off of him and then rolled him in one of the best MMA move I seen nothing really dirty but it was starting to get chippy so I flag the defense for USC.   

Now 2 or 3 plays Later defense made a great stop and the nose guard gets up and looks at the Rb and says "how to you like that COMPLAIN?"

boom umpire flag fly's

Home team coach calls a To and wants to talk to me
He asked me what his player said and I told him what my umpire told me
then he gets mad and said that I needed to call the language the same on both sides and he proceeded to me that oh the hold and USC a few plays earlier that his kid was getting cussed and I did not do anything about that told the coach that I did not hear anything he said he cussed him like a yard dog and that the only USC was on his kid which he was not griping about that because his kid threw a punch but nothing was done about cussing.  I then looked at the Coach and said do you remind repeating what you said about your kid, coach then told me again that his kid deserved the USC because he threw a punch but he also got cussed just call it both ways
I told the coach that I did not see the punch or hear the cussing but since you said you guy threw a punch how about I disqualify your player since you said he threw a punch and it would make my paper work to the state much easier.  HE looked at me and said hey just forget about what I said you all are doing a good job keep it up.

My Line judge and I got a good kick out of it
 
 
do or do not there is no try

Offline VALJ

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 10:10:47 AM »
So I have a flag for Holding, well the offensive player laid on top for a little bit longer the the defensive play thought he should and pushed the offense player off of him and then rolled him in one of the best MMA move I seen nothing really dirty but it was starting to get chippy so I flag the defense for USC. 

As a point of order - a USC is by definition a non-contact foul. If you're flagging for something physical, shouldn't it be a DBPF?

Offline ncwingman

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2019, 02:30:00 PM »
As a point of order - a USC is by definition a non-contact foul. If you're flagging for something physical, shouldn't it be a DBPF?

By rule, yes. However, depending how chippy the game gets, there have been times that DBPFs have been escalated to USCs for "refusing to comply with a game officials request" to quit the post-whistle shenanigans. Nobody is throwing punches or being overly flagrant worthy of ejections, but a player racks up 3 personal fouls in 4 plays, they clearly aren't listening to the people telling them to stop.

Offline BIG UMP

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2019, 03:52:13 PM »
Don't go off the reservation changing a contact foul to a non-contact foul just make his last one a flagrant PF and eject.
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Offline JasonTX

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2019, 04:46:18 PM »
By rule, yes. However, depending how chippy the game gets, there have been times that DBPFs have been escalated to USCs for "refusing to comply with a game officials request" to quit the post-whistle shenanigans. Nobody is throwing punches or being overly flagrant worthy of ejections, but a player racks up 3 personal fouls in 4 plays, they clearly aren't listening to the people telling them to stop.

Sounds like a good rule to change to the NCAA rule.  Pushing and shoving after the play that has nothing to do with the play can be an unsportsmanlike.  This change a few years ago to allow that.  We used to just have offsetting personal fouls and that never fixes anything.  But now, if you get an unsportsmanlike foul they know their counter has 1 on it and that has a little more bite.

Offline ncwingman

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2019, 05:43:00 PM »
Don't go off the reservation changing a contact foul to a non-contact foul just make his last one a flagrant PF and eject.

The problem with this is consistency. Why would that last PF be flagrant when the same action in the first quarter not be ejection worthy?

The coach is going to send in the video of the last play and say "My kid was ejected for this!" and they'll review it and say "Yeah, that's not flagrant, it shouldn't have been an ejection" and now my credibility is shot with the coach and the state.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2019, 07:08:33 PM »
The problem with this is consistency. Why would that last PF be flagrant when the same action in the first quarter not be ejection worthy?

The coach is going to send in the video of the last play and say "My kid was ejected for this!" and they'll review it and say "Yeah, that's not flagrant, it shouldn't have been an ejection" and now my credibility is shot with the coach and the state.

Sorry ncwingman, that logic is what builds to outright riot.  If that's what you want to deal with, that's YOUR option. Bad behavior tends to ACCUMULATE, and hopefully "most" players guilty of bad behavior, recognize their error and have learned to adjust and avoid repeating it, when the consequences of the initial example is demonstrated to them.

Others may foolishly interpret your reaction to be a license to continue behaving badly. Again, if that's alright with you, you'll likely have additional opportunity to deal with it, again.  Anyone competent to review film should know enough to question if what they are reviewing is an isolated instance, or one of a similar, if not progressive, sequence.  The idea is to prevent inappropriate (often emotional) overreaction, not encourage it's repetition and/or escalation. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2019, 08:36:36 AM »
Whoever's reviewing the film should also be closely reading the incident report, which can be framed to very clearly indicate that he was warned, it continued, other fouls were charged to the player, behavior still continued. 

That film review absolutely should not happen in a bubble without context.

Offline VALJ

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2019, 02:50:25 PM »

I would absolutely love the ability to treat contact after the whistle as a USC like college does.  If Fed wants to take that garbage out of the game, that's a great way to do it.  "Coach, Bubba's cheap shot after the play was over costs you 15 yards, and if he does something silly like that again tonight, he'll remove himself from the proceedings." 

Until and unless Fed makes that change, which I personally feel is long overdue, you're on a slippery slope handing out a USC for a contact foul.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2019, 03:41:56 PM »
I would absolutely love the ability to treat contact after the whistle as a USC like college does.  If Fed wants to take that garbage out of the game, that's a great way to do it.  "Coach, Bubba's cheap shot after the play was over costs you 15 yards, and if he does something silly like that again tonight, he'll remove himself from the proceedings." 

Until and unless Fed makes that change, which I personally feel is long overdue, you're on a slippery slope handing out a USC for a contact foul.

"A rose by any name would smell as sweet".  Both NFHS "Illegal Personal Contact" and "Noncontact USC by Players (or Non-Players)" contain, essentially, the same "Penalty" provision, ""Disqualification also if any fouls under these articles are judged by the game official to be flagrant".

NFHS 2-16-2c "Flagrant- A foul so severe or extreme that it places an opponent in danger of serious injury, and/or involves violations that are extremely or persistently vulgar or abusive conduct."

The decision, as to severity of consequence, whether EITHER Illegal Personal Contact" or NonContact USC by a player(or Non-player) is "flagrant" is an EXCLUSIVE judgment by "the game official".

The ONLY difference being one foul designation relates to "Contact", the other to "Non-Contact" circumstances.

Offline Magician

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2019, 10:37:12 PM »
Sounds like a good rule to change to the NCAA rule.  Pushing and shoving after the play that has nothing to do with the play can be an unsportsmanlike.  This change a few years ago to allow that.  We used to just have offsetting personal fouls and that never fixes anything.  But now, if you get an unsportsmanlike foul they know their counter has 1 on it and that has a little more bite.

I admit I did this once. After a play as the players were getting up, one of the DL placed his fist on the crotch of an opponent and used it to push up as he was getting up. It wasn't a punch and UNR would have been the appropriate foul, but I felt it was an much UNS and UNR. That was not correct by rule but I had no issues with that player the rest of the game.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 08:11:51 PM »
I was working an 8th grade game last night and the coaches were complaining about holds and other various things they see from the sideline.  At one point I heard the coach tell one of the other coaches,  "This isn't nothing but a jr. high game with jr. high refs."  I just almost popped off and said, "Yea, and with jr. high coaches."   ;D

Offline refjeff

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Re: From the Mouths of Coaches 2019
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2019, 05:40:15 AM »
I admit I did this once. After a play as the players were getting up, one of the DL placed his fist on the crotch of an opponent and used it to push up as he was getting up. It wasn't a punch and UNR would have been the appropriate foul, but I felt it was an much UNS and UNR. That was not correct by rule but I had no issues with that player the rest of the game.
Nothing is more personal than someone putting their hand on my crotch.  PF.