Author Topic: Illegal kick on a free kick  (Read 660 times)

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Offline Clear Lake ref

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Illegal kick on a free kick
« on: October 18, 2019, 10:13:22 PM »
Team A does an onside.  As the ball is rolling within 10 yards toward the sideline, a Team A player comes up and kicks it out of bounds.

What do you have and enforcement?

Offline TXMike

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2019, 10:23:47 PM »
What did you do before we tell what you should have done?   nAnA
« Last Edit: October 18, 2019, 10:38:16 PM by TXMike »

Offline Clear Lake ref

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2019, 10:46:45 PM »
10 from where he kicked it illegally.

Iím also now 2nd guessing myself on which direction we went.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2019, 06:16:34 AM »
First - to be sure-  was the ball intentionally kicked ?  Seems odd A would do that if trying to recover an onside.   If it was then there is a foul  If it wasnít then there is just an illegal touch (it was before ball had gone 10 yards right?). The illegal touch means ball can belong to B at spot of touch.  Since ball
Went OOB Untouched by B there is also a KO OOB foul. And ball is OOB belonging to B so that is a potential enforcement spot.  The spot of the illegal kick is not an enf spot as the foul happened during a kick play.   Sooooooooo.  Now figure out what options you should have given B

Offline Clear Lake ref

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2019, 08:19:49 AM »
Yes, kick was intentional. 2 flags on it and both agreed.

Why wouldnít it be a foul by team A enforced from where B will next put the ball in play?  We also recognized it was KOB but went with the 10 for illegal kick.

Offline TXMike

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2019, 10:09:02 AM »
The spot of foul is only where ball will next be put in play if they elect illegal touch   And to take illegal touch spot canít have an accepted penalty. So yes . Can enforcer from OOB spot as the ball belongs to Team B there

Offline Clear Lake ref

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2019, 10:25:53 AM »
Fortunately it was kicked sideways out. So right enforcement by accident. Now we know.

Thatís 2 straight weeks with an illegal kick.

1 in my previous 10 years.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2019, 04:54:15 PM »
This isn't an illegal kick, but illegally kicking the ball. I wish the NCAA would drop the distinction and have just one foul. There's no need for 2. Pick one, classify all of them as one or the other, and go with that.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2019, 06:18:55 PM »
This isn't an illegal kick, but illegally kicking the ball. I wish the NCAA would drop the distinction and have just one foul. There's no need for 2. Pick one, classify all of them as one or the other, and go with that.

One causes the ball to become dead while the other does not.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2019, 12:33:39 AM »
I understand that, but we have illegal shift fouls that translate into false start (i.e. ball becoming dead) whereas most illegal shifts are live ball fouls. Any rule change could either take that into effect or change that as well.

I'm sure that you've done training sessions where you've said something like, "we've got fouls for an illegal kick and separate fouls for illegally kicking the ball" and a new guy will look at you like, "huh?" The game is complicated enough. Let's simplify it where we can. Have you ever called an illegal kick? How many illegally kicking fouls? Zero on the former and like 2 on the latter for me.

Offline Magician

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2019, 09:47:27 AM »
I understand that, but we have illegal shift fouls that translate into false start (i.e. ball becoming dead) whereas most illegal shifts are live ball fouls. Any rule change could either take that into effect or change that as well.

I'm sure that you've done training sessions where you've said something like, "we've got fouls for an illegal kick and separate fouls for illegally kicking the ball" and a new guy will look at you like, "huh?" The game is complicated enough. Let's simplify it where we can. Have you ever called an illegal kick? How many illegally kicking fouls? Zero on the former and like 2 on the latter for me.

One of each for me. Both are very different acts so I have no problem calling them something different.

Offline Joe Stack

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2019, 03:44:07 PM »
The acts aren't THAT different. Last night, in a varsity "game", I called an illegally kicking foul. The punter muffed the snap and, due to the rush, just went ahead and kicked the ball off the ground. Let's say that, for some odd reason, he took off, crossed the NZ, (intentionally) dropped the ball and kicked it then. What would you have? And why (logically, not current rules based) would you have something different than him punting?

Look, I'm not saying the current rule makes no sense. Just saying to simplify things let's call it one thing and then specify when the ball becomes dead and enforcement procedures. We have a myriad of illegal forward pass fouls and enforcements (intentional grounding, pass beyond the line, etc.). Then we have illegal touching -- by ineligible receiver and an eligible receiver, and both are enforced differently. Plus, there are interps about how to handle what might be a straight up illegal touching that should be called illegal forward pass, especially from the end zone. My point here is that there is plenty of support to call something one thing and to handle it differently.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: Illegal kick on a free kick
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2019, 04:36:28 PM »
That sounds very complicated.