Author Topic: 40/25 Play Clock  (Read 633 times)

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Offline ttown44

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40/25 Play Clock
« on: January 06, 2020, 06:50:40 AM »
This topic has probably been beaten about quite a bit here.  However, I actually had it happen in one of my games earlier this year.  A is ahead by 1 pt. with under 2 minutes remaining.  B is out of timeouts and A has a 2/8 from the A-12.  A sweeps left and is stopped at the line by B55.  Immediately, and legitimately at the end of the play, B78 falls to the ground with a muscle cramp.  During the injury timeout, my Umpire, who also officiates at the college level states that if we go with a 25 play clock, B's own injury is advantageous to them, gaining them 15 seconds, and that we should be going with a 40 second clock.  We decide to go with the 40 and A got a first down on the next play anyhow.  Justified?
      1.6 The referee has authority to rule promptly, and in the spirit of
      good sportsmanship, on any situation not specifically covered in the rules.
      The referee’s decisions are final in all matters pertaining to the game.
I've gotten some differing opinions when I ask around.  This really should be a NFHS rule change to a defensive injury or helmet off goes to a 40 second clock.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2020, 07:25:21 AM »
He was wrong.  This has specific rule coverage so 1-1-6 should not apply.

With all due deference to our higher level cohorts, and I've worked with a few, they are not always right on NFHS.

« Last Edit: January 06, 2020, 07:30:45 AM by HLinNC »

Offline ttown44

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2020, 09:16:58 AM »
The only reason that I say he works college is that the NCAA rule is that when there is a defensive injury or a defensive helmet comes off, the PC goes to 40 seconds.  It does make sense whereas otherwise, the team is saving 15 seconds at a crucial time due to an injury.  It doesn't appear as though it is on the radar this year for a rule change.

Offline Magician

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2020, 09:58:05 AM »
The only reason that I say he works college is that the NCAA rule is that when there is a defensive injury or a defensive helmet comes off, the PC goes to 40 seconds.  It does make sense whereas otherwise, the team is saving 15 seconds at a crucial time due to an injury.  It doesn't appear as though it is on the radar this year for a rule change.

He's correct by the NCAA rule and he's also right that the defense benefits from the injury. The NCAA made this change I believe the year after they instituted the 40-second rule. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing happen in NFHS. But also realize the exact same thing would have happened with a 25-second clock. It would have likely been 10-15 seconds to start the play clock while the game clock was running, but with the injury time out those 10-15 seconds don't run off. This isn't new just because we have a 40-second play clock now. The benefit is we now have a 40-second clock that can be utilized if the rule is changed.

Offline ElvisLives

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2020, 11:25:08 AM »
And, in NCAA, there is also the 10-second subtraction available to the offended team if the helmet-off or injury occurs during the last minute of the 2nd or 4th periods.  So, along with the 40-second play clock, there is much disincentive for Team B to fake an injury late in the game.  Probably doesn't help you Fed guys, yet, but you can point to the NCAA if you need a reference for strengthening the clock-abuse rules.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2020, 11:48:14 AM »
Once again, what may really seem necessary for full grown geese, may NOT apply as well for maturing ducklings, who are better served by the judgment of appointed guardians.

Offline VALJ

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2020, 01:05:58 PM »
"Sorry, Mr. Umpire, that rule doesn't apply tonight."

There is specific coverage for what to do with the play clock after an official's time out for injury.  Unless you're ruling that B is trying to gain time illegally, set it to 25 and go.  Why should A be penalized 15 second when it's not their kid that got hurt?

Offline HLinNC

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2020, 02:57:17 PM »
Quote
The only reason that I say he works college is that the NCAA rule is that when there is a defensive injury or a defensive helmet comes off, the PC goes to 40 seconds.  It does make sense whereas otherwise, the team is saving 15 seconds at a crucial time due to an injury.  It doesn't appear as though it is on the radar this year for a rule change.

I fully understood that.  I also understand that you let him talk you into a misapplication of a rule under the guise of the all encompassing "god clause".  Not every high school coach is oblivious to rules.  How were you going to handle a coach-official conference when one called you on it?

All in all it's not a great habit to get into.  I'm not even real sure why you're getting "differing opinions" unless they are college guys too.


Offline ttown44

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2020, 11:13:52 AM »
I went with his judgement as I felt as I didn't want an injury timeout to decide the winner of a game that had high stakes tied to it.  In hindsight, if I were questioned, I'd state that B is gaining an advantage through their own injury in terms of saving the 15 seconds.  Moving forward, I think I'm probably better off leaving the loop holes to exist and hoping for a rule change. 

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2020, 12:26:22 PM »
Last year  was not a print year for the Officials  Manual, this year is. We will probably adopt the play clock rule that has been posted on the NFHS website since the rule passed. That doc states that following an official's timeout for an injury to a player the play clock will reset to 25 or 40 at the referee's discretion.  I took this to mean 25" unless B was "gaming the system" to preserve time.

Offline ttown44

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2020, 01:18:58 PM »
Last year  was not a print year for the Officials  Manual, this year is. We will probably adopt the play clock rule that has been posted on the NFHS website since the rule passed. That doc states that following an official's timeout for an injury to a player the play clock will reset to 25 or 40 at the referee's discretion.  I took this to mean 25" unless B was "gaming the system" to preserve time.

Where is this document?  I do not see it on the NFHS website.

Offline HLinNC

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2020, 06:03:14 AM »
Quote
Where is this document?  I do not see it on the NFHS website.

https://nfhs.arbitersports.com/front/shared/ABTShare/RuleBooks_OQ/201819footballgameofficialsmanual/index.html

If you aren't an NFHS member, you probably can't access it.  They do not include it on the rulebook app.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2020, 09:06:04 AM »
https://nfhs.arbitersports.com/front/shared/ABTShare/RuleBooks_OQ/201819footballgameofficialsmanual/index.html

If you aren't an NFHS member, you probably can't access it.  They do not include it on the rulebook app.
As President Reagan once said, "Trust BUT verify."" You'll have to trust me until the new Officials Manuals arrive. :) You should have them before your season starts so that you can verify.  :)

Offline NVFOA_Ump

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2020, 09:18:23 AM »
Where is this document?  I do not see it on the NFHS website.

I believe that this is the document that you are looking for. It was posted on the NFHS website in late April.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 09:21:59 AM by NVFOA_Ump »
It's easy to get the players, getting 'em to play together, that's the hard part. - Casey Stengel

Offline HLinNC

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2020, 12:10:55 PM »
Oh I trust you Ralph.  I took it to mean he wasn't familiar with the officials manual at all.

Offline ttown44

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2020, 02:22:25 PM »
I'm not seeing the discretionary piece anywhere.  Am I missing it?

Offline Morningrise

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2020, 08:55:23 AM »
In the interest of keeping the NFHS rulebook simpler than NCAA's, I think "25 or 40 at the ref's discretion" is a solid solution.

Offline toma

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2020, 03:34:07 PM »
So are we to determine the injured player is faking it or legitimate?   

Offline riffraft

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Re: 40/25 Play Clock
« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2020, 04:24:54 PM »
So are we to determine the injured player is faking it or legitimate?

Heck no that is just opening up a real can of worms.