Author Topic: PAT  (Read 879 times)

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Offline toma

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PAT
« on: January 15, 2020, 09:49:49 AM »
At the snap D jumps in NZ   ^flag ,  kick is made. do you re-try or apply on the KO?

Online prab

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Re: PAT
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2020, 10:11:00 AM »
Are you sure that you are wording this correctly?  Sounds like there is no offense here.  D can enter the NZ at the snap.

Offline Derek Teigen

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Re: PAT
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2020, 11:04:18 AM »
If you mean the defense encroached into the neutral zone just prior to the snap it would be a dead ball foul and the you would replay the down.  Offense could move the ball 1/2 distance to the 1 1/2 yard line or elect to not accept the yardage.

Offline BetweenTheLines

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Re: PAT
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2020, 11:40:07 AM »
I think you are looking for your answer encased in rule 8-2-5. Prior to the ready.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2020, 11:41:49 AM by BetweenTheLines »

Offline HLinNC

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Re: PAT
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2020, 01:15:22 PM »
Encroachment is a dead ball foul in NFHS.  The kick, if made, doesn't count.  Many teams will decline the penalty yardage on the foul as the kicker is used to kicking the try from a certain spot/distance.

Offline Etref

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Re: PAT
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2020, 02:37:18 PM »
Happened to me the one and only year working NFHS rules

After 8 years of NCAA rules in Texas HS, I was transferred to Oklahoma.working a game it was7-0

When team behind scored making it 7-6. On the PAT, defense jumped into NZ, snap, flag by me, kick is good.

I went to the R and told him I had screwed the pooch and it should have been a dead ball foul. Points off the board, rekick and he missed. Still 7-6. I felt horrible but it got worse. With less than a minute left in the game it was still 7-6 and I am thinking “ I just caused these guys to lose!”


25 seconds left they scored on a play to the other side of the field making the score 13-7.  :bOW :bOW

The moral of the story is get it right, remember what code you are working under and then you won’t be in that position.
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline toma

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Re: PAT
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2020, 02:51:32 PM »
As you know we in Mass just change to NFHS and coachers hate that we make them re-kick. Its been a problem across the state not everyone is blow & throw.
In my games I have. A learning curve they have to get use to. thanks

Offline Magician

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Re: PAT
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2020, 02:53:06 PM »
As you know we in Mass just change to NFHS and coachers hate that we make them re-kick. Its been a problem across the state not everyone is blow & throw.
In my games I have. A learning curve they have to get use to. thanks


I would very much support changing encroachment to offside and making it a live ball foul in HS.

Offline carol1995

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Re: PAT
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2020, 04:53:17 PM »
I would very much support changing encroachment to offside and making it a live ball foul in HS.

Ralph Damren, please pick up the nearest white courtesy phone, please.

Offline Tom.OH

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Re: PAT
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 06:16:05 AM »
I would very much support changing encroachment to offside and making it a live ball foul in HS.

A lot of coaches think it is already...
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. And inside of a dog, it's to dark to read."
Groucho Marx

Offline HLinNC

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Re: PAT
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 07:05:13 AM »
Quote
A lot of coaches think it is already...

That's because it is easier to learn rules lying on the couch than cracking a rule book.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: PAT
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 07:13:04 AM »
Happened to me the one and only year working NFHS rules

After 8 years of NCAA rules in Texas HS, I was transferred to Oklahoma.working a game it was7-0

When team behind scored making it 7-6. On the PAT, defense jumped into NZ, snap, flag by me, kick is good.

I went to the R and told him I had screwed the pooch and it should have been a dead ball foul. Points off the board, rekick and he missed. Still 7-6. I felt horrible but it got worse. With less than a minute left in the game it was still 7-6 and I am thinking “ I just caused these guys to lose!”


25 seconds left they scored on a play to the other side of the field making the score 13-7.  :bOW :bOW

The moral of the story is get it right, remember what code you are working under and then you won’t be in that position.

Sometimes it works the other way around — they miss the first one and make the do-over.  “Coach, by rule that first kick never happened.”

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: PAT
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 08:32:36 AM »
Been there, done exactly that, except mine didn't involve a score BUT it did involve a big play, by the offense that had to be erased as "never really happened" (which NEVER goes unnoticed).

Working both codes, during the same period, provides a lot of pleasure and excitement BUT it provides a lot of readily available "Bumps" if you're not really careful and paying attention.

Offline ilyazhito

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Re: PAT
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 07:44:11 PM »
Sometimes it works the other way around — they miss the first one and make the do-over.  “Coach, by rule that first kick never happened.”
In that case, the coach would elect enforcement of the penalty and get to repeat the kick.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: PAT
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2020, 10:21:28 AM »
Ralph Damren, please pick up the nearest white courtesy phone, please.
IN ;
  1976 - Offside became a dead ball foul on scrimmage downs.
  1977 - Offside became a dead ball foul on free kick downs.
  1977 - Offside was changed to encroachment.

I was a wide-eyed wing   :o back then and enjoyed the change. It was a challenge back then to figure out if Bubba (OL) flinched before Tugboat entered the NZ or if Tugboat was back out of the NZ before the snap   :o :o . I came on the NFHS Rules Committee in 1992 and only recall the change -back only proposed once ,with very little support.

PS : Magician knows his pizza  eAt&

Offline Magician

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Re: PAT
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2020, 03:15:44 PM »
IN ;
  1976 - Offside became a dead ball foul on scrimmage downs.
  1977 - Offside became a dead ball foul on free kick downs.
  1977 - Offside was changed to encroachment.

I was a wide-eyed wing   :o back then and enjoyed the change. It was a challenge back then to figure out if Bubba (OL) flinched before Tugboat entered the NZ or if Tugboat was back out of the NZ before the snap   :o :o . I came on the NFHS Rules Committee in 1992 and only recall the change -back only proposed once ,with very little support.

PS : Magician knows his pizza  eAt&

Easy peasy! When in doubt A flinched before B encroached. He knows the snap count so has a higher threshold. If B is in and moving backward at the time of the snap and it's close let it go. He's already at a disadvantage because he's going the wrong direction. Even the most elementary high school official could handle both of those.

That was some good pizza! I had the leftovers for dinner Wednesday night. I need to use our air fryer correctly though because I burned the crust! Be nice to the gate agents!

Offline KWH

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Re: PAT
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2020, 09:41:12 PM »
Two things of value from Indy:

1) Trust Magician when it comes to pizza.
2) No matter how bad things look, always trust your gate agent.
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: PAT
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2020, 11:22:26 AM »
Two things of value from Indy:

1) Trust Magician when it comes to pizza.
2) No matter how bad things look, always trust your gate agent.

3) Beer's colder at The Ram than hotel.

Today's riddle : Matt (Hawaii) and I (Maine) both Ubered to airport for flights home. Matt was to arrive at 2 :00 PM, I was to arrive at 2 :20 PM. How so ??? ???

Online prab

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Re: PAT
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2020, 12:20:07 PM »
A rupture in the space - time continuum, caused by misplaced trust in the gate agent?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: PAT
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2020, 01:34:29 PM »
A rupture in the space - time continuum, caused by misplaced trust in the gate agent?
Good try Prab, but it took Matt nearly 5 hours longer to get home. HST is 5 hours behind EST. Certainly jet lag !

Offline eprov

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Re: PAT
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2020, 07:43:48 PM »
So he got home before you ;D