Author Topic: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?  (Read 2846 times)

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Offline KWH

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #75 on: March 25, 2020, 12:33:23 PM »
Might make one wonder why the other 48 (oops with MA conversion, make that 49/50) States reluctant to reach that same conclusion.

Actually, there are currently 50 members of the NFHS
You neglected to include the District of Columbia

Additionally, there are 52 voting members when you add in:
* NFHS - Coaches Association
* NFHS - Officials Association


Source:
* 2019 NFHS Football Rules Book - Page 5
* 2019 and 2020 Football Handbook - Page 96
 
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #76 on: March 26, 2020, 12:45:20 PM »
Actually, there are currently 50 members of the NFHS
You neglected to include the District of Columbia

Additionally, there are 52 voting members when you add in:
* NFHS - Coaches Association
* NFHS - Officials Association


Source:
* 2019 NFHS Football Rules Book - Page 5
* 2019 and 2020 Football Handbook - Page 96

CASE (of beer) PLAY 11.1.1 : All 52 voting members are present when the" Oregonian run 97 yards with a botched PAT " comes to the floor vote, 67% -35 votes are required to pass ,when : (a) voting member from state X runs to the outhouse; (b) voting members from the coaches assoc. & officials assoc. both drop their voting paddles and begin arm wrestling; (c) voting member from state Y falls out of his chair while waving his paddle for yes vote; (d) voting member from Maine nods off and falls asleep on table, his paddle is propped against his ear as "yes" votes are called. There are 34 clear "yes" votes counted. Does the proposal become a rule ?

RULING :  (you make the call)

 :sTiR: cRaZy tR:oLl :puke: :puke: :puke: ;D :o 8] ??? ::) pi1eOn hEaDbAnG

Offline js in sc

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #77 on: March 26, 2020, 01:09:17 PM »
Can you run back a botched PAT?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2020, 01:27:58 PM »
Can you run back a botched PAT?
if this rule should pass, YES

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2020, 01:41:08 PM »
Can you run back a botched PAT?

Not under NFHS rules, unless you can find a way around 8-3-2a-d

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2020, 01:52:31 PM »
Not under NFHS rules, unless you can find a way around 8-3-2a-d
This proposed rule change is on next year's docket. IF it passes, we like the NCAA & NFL, could be chasing kids for 97 yards. I was using it as a hypo. Also, I have never fallen asleep during the voting session. :) :)

Offline bossman72

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #81 on: March 26, 2020, 02:16:50 PM »
This proposed rule change is on next year's docket. IF it passes, we like the NCAA & NFL, could be chasing kids for 97 yards. I was using it as a hypo. Also, I have never fallen asleep during the voting session. :) :)

I think it's good to not allow returns in NFHS for simplicity's sake.  You should see the enforcement procedures in NCAA for Tries and OT.  You can forget all but one and making sense of anything.

Offline js in sc

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #82 on: March 26, 2020, 02:35:19 PM »
This proposed rule change is on next year's docket. IF it passes, we like the NCAA & NFL, could be chasing kids for 97 yards. I was using it as a hypo. Also, I have never fallen asleep during the voting session. :) :)
There are a lot of older, overweight high school Referees who will be watching from afar. And if they try to give chase : :puke:

Offline prab

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #83 on: March 26, 2020, 02:38:57 PM »
Just be glad that the hash marks no longer bisect the yard lines.  Would hate to see R trip over hash mark while trying to keep up with returner.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #84 on: March 27, 2020, 08:38:19 AM »
With apologizes to my Oregonian friends, this was on the docket a couple of times several years ago and came very close to passing - once by only one vote. They had ran it as an experimental rule with it then. Being selfish , I voted against it then.

RULING ON CASE (of beer) PLAY 11.1.1 : (a) the outhouse bound voter was present at the start, 35 votes still needed; (b) same requirement for the arm-wrestling voters -the chair,under Roberts Rule Of Order, could ask for a role call of voters which would allow them to continue their event and voice their choice; (3) the voter's vote would count even if he had touched the floor with more than just his hands or feet; (4) the voter from Maine would be awoken by the sarge-at-arms to vote, if he can't find his paddle or voice, he can just signal by  :thumbup.

:)HOPE THIS MAY ADD A CHUCKLE TO SOME. LET'S ALL TRY TO STAY UPBEAT AND POSITIVE. LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND YOUR DAY WILL BE A HAPPIER ONE... ;D

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #85 on: March 27, 2020, 08:56:35 AM »
With apologizes to my Oregonian friends, this was on the docket a couple of times several years ago and came very close to passing - once by only one vote. They had ran it as an experimental rule with it then. Being selfish , I voted against it then.

:)HOPE THIS MAY ADD A CHUCKLE TO SOME. LET'S ALL TRY TO STAY UPBEAT AND POSITIVE. LEAD BY EXAMPLE AND YOUR DAY WILL BE A HAPPIER ONE... ;D

On behalf of the "older, (somewhat possibly) overweight HS Referees" thank you for your courageous, and practical, vote. 

(Currently, and seemingly logically, when a defensive team is able to score it's own Touchdown, they too, are currently awarded the opportunity to add extra point(s) as a reward to bolster their scoring achievement.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 09:00:04 AM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline KWH

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #86 on: March 30, 2020, 06:00:03 PM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

The great thing about this rule is it allows some of us older, overweight, HS Referees the chance to hon our skills and
perform the 90 yard dash in front of a live audience.  tiphat:

But wait, it gets better because, now...

The R is now on wrong goal line!  He/she needs to be 100 yards from here for the subsequent Kickoff, so...

Time for another exhibition of speed   :o  :!#
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 06:21:08 PM by KWH »
SEE everything that you CALL, but;
Don't CALL everything you SEE!

Offline bossman72

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #87 on: March 30, 2020, 07:16:21 PM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

The great thing about this rule is it allows some of us older, overweight, HS Referees the chance to hon our skills and
perform the 90 yard dash in front of a live audience.  tiphat:

But wait, it gets better because, now...

The R is now on wrong goal line!  He/she needs to be 100 yards from here for the subsequent Kickoff, so...

Time for another exhibition of speed   :o  :!#

How did you guys handle penalty enforcement on the try?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #88 on: March 30, 2020, 09:06:18 PM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

The great thing about this rule is it allows some of us older, overweight, HS Referees the chance to hon our skills and
perform the 90 yard dash in front of a live audience.  tiphat:

But wait, it gets better because, now...

The R is now on wrong goal line!  He/she needs to be 100 yards from here for the subsequent Kickoff, so...

Time for another exhibition of speed   :o  :!#

In Texas we also have 6 man football.  Luckily the defense can't advance the Try.  In 11 man it doesn't happen very often, but the 6 man game it would probably happen several times a game so very thankful it is dead.

Offline Etref

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #89 on: March 30, 2020, 09:52:51 PM »
Has a try in a Texas HS ( NCAA rules)

Defense picked it at the 2 and on a dead run. I was the R trying to figure out how I was going to beat their 17 year old 98 yards to the end zone.

By the time we got to the 40 he was already even with me ( I was about the 25 to start).

He was pumping his arms something fierce and slung the ball OOB! Thank God for youthful exuberance

,!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline js in sc

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2020, 10:18:32 PM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

The great thing about this rule is it allows some of us older, overweight, HS Referees the chance to hon our skills and
perform the 90 yard dash in front of a live audience.  tiphat:

But wait, it gets better because, now...

The R is now on wrong goal line!  He/she needs to be 100 yards from here for the subsequent Kickoff, so...

Time for another exhibition of speed   :o  :!#
Help me.  How is R on the wrong goal line for the free kick?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #91 on: March 31, 2020, 07:52:15 AM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

The great thing about this rule is it allows some of us older, overweight, HS Referees the chance to hon our skills and
perform the 90 yard dash in front of a live audience.  tiphat:

But wait, it gets better because, now...

The R is now on wrong goal line!  He/she needs to be 100 yards from here for the subsequent Kickoff, so...

Time for another exhibition of speed   :o  :!#

I'll vote for it this time if refs over the age of 50 can bring golf carts out on the field for a 90 yard journey, if needed ! R would need a return journey for the ensuing kickoff unless the TD had ended the period.  ;D

Offline bossman72

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #92 on: March 31, 2020, 08:26:11 AM »
Help me.  How is R on the wrong goal line for the free kick?

Normally on a try you don't have to go anywhere for your free kick positioning.  If you run to the other goal line, you have to run all the way back to the original goal line where you did the try to position yourself for the free kick.  He's just referring to the return making you run almost 200 extra yards.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #93 on: March 31, 2020, 09:00:35 AM »
Out here is Oregon we conducted a 4 year experiment allowing the Defense to score on a Try.
A defensive conversion scores 2 points for the defense.

Apparently, and thankfully, the 4 year experiment failed to impress enough Rule makers to make a change. 

The "Extra Point (Try)" is a REWARD opportunity granted to the scoring team, for scoring.  To be fair to the Defense, they are given an equal opportunity to prevent the scoring team, from being granted an "extra point". 

Why should we give the Defense an added opportunity to score, as a reward for being SCORED UPON?

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #94 on: March 31, 2020, 10:29:05 AM »
My murky memory recalls that the votes were very close. I do recall watching a video of a championship game where a team ,trailing  27-0, blocked a PAT kick and returned it 97 yards. Even with them now trailing 27-2, the celebration that ensued resembled a national championship. While many were excited to see the excitement, I was watching the poor referee run out of steam around midfield. That sealed my vote  :). I does seem that a play had arisen in a college game where B blocked the kick, scooped it up and started on their journey when the kicker pulled off his helmet and tossed it at the advancing B player and tripping him. The then officials' response was : "....NOTHING TO SEE HERE, GUYS, TIME TO KICKOFF.." . The NCAA may have tweaked the rule since then, and hopefully the Oregonian Duce Jaunt will have
« Last Edit: April 01, 2020, 01:01:53 PM by Ralph Damren »

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #95 on: March 31, 2020, 11:45:08 AM »
While its true that most fouls after a change of possession in a try are declined by rule in NCAA, that sounds like it should not have been one. A player removing his helmet is unsportsmanlike conduct which is an exception to that rule. The R could also rule it an unfair act and count the score. So at the very least you have an unsuccessful try with A kicking off from their 20. At most you have B scoring two points, A kicking from their 20 and possibly the offender DQd.

Online Kalle

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2020, 01:54:07 PM »
While its true that most fouls after a change of possession in a try are declined by rule in NCAA, that sounds like it should not have been one. A player removing his helmet is unsportsmanlike conduct which is an exception to that rule. The R could also rule it an unfair act and count the score. So at the very least you have an unsuccessful try with A kicking off from their 20. At most you have B scoring two points, A kicking from their 20 and possibly the offender DQd.

Sorry to slightly hijack the thread for NCAA: I would like that action to be classified as fighting, so it qualifies as a flagrant personal foul and the kicker is automatically ejected.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2020, 01:59:50 PM »
You can make it flagrant without making it fighting. A fight takes two people. You can just make this a flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ him.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2020, 02:18:25 PM »
You can make it flagrant without making it fighting. A fight takes two people. You can just make this a flagrant unsportsmanlike conduct and DQ him.

Or (thankfully) in the NFHS world, you could blow the try ended, when possession changed (or if it was a kick, as soon as it is apparent the drop kick or place kick failed) and avoid all the nonsense that may happen thereafter.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: FED RULES TOUCHDOWN OR NOT ?
« Reply #99 on: March 31, 2020, 02:50:50 PM »
 ::) For anybody else unable or unwilling to see the general application of that idea rather than the specific case presented.

A11 breaks a run down the sideline. Safety B99 realizes he wont make the tackle, so he takes his helmet off and throws it at the runner causing the runner to trip. Apply above philosophies.