Author Topic: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci  (Read 1824 times)

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Offline TexDoc

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #50 on: May 20, 2020, 12:55:18 PM »
What about states like Texas that officials are paid on gate fees. No crowd, no gate!

There's a minimum.  Can't recall, but something like $85

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #51 on: May 20, 2020, 01:06:07 PM »
It is BECAUSE this is America - land of the free. Virtually all true and free Americans were willing to voluntarily suspend their freedoms for a moment to figure out this Covid thing, get a plan, and then get back to life and business. Believe it or not, we have figured it out.  We know what it is. We know how it is transmitted. We know its effects. And we know how to treat it.

No, there are no treatments. There are some things that work sometimes for some people. But in general, there is nothing but rest, and hope your body recovers. There are also lots of snake-oils like Hydroxychloroquine. If you get COVID-19, it's all up to your individual body to how it will fight it, or not fight it. It's basically Russian Roulette - most people will be fine, some people will die.

I predict sports with less contact like Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Volleyball and possibly Soccer can come back this fall. I very much doubt sports that I love (like Lacrosse, Football or Hockey) will be able to come back quickly at the youth level.

I would have no problem umping Baseball or Softball, but not Football. And I bet insurance would be too high for it to come back.



Offline riffraft

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #52 on: May 20, 2020, 01:24:01 PM »
No, there are no treatments. There are some things that work sometimes for some people. But in general, there is nothing but rest, and hope your body recovers. There are also lots of snake-oils like Hydroxychloroquine. If you get COVID-19, it's all up to your individual body to how it will fight it, or not fight it. It's basically Russian Roulette - most people will be fine, some people will die.

I predict sports with less contact like Baseball, Tennis, Golf, Volleyball and possibly Soccer can come back this fall. I very much doubt sports that I love (like Lacrosse, Football or Hockey) will be able to come back quickly at the youth level.

I would have no problem umping Baseball or Softball, but not Football. And I bet insurance would be too high for it to come back.

I have a friend who has a bad heart and got Covid-19 and was hospitalized. He is quite thankful that he was treated with the snake-oil Hydroxychloroquine. He recovered relatively quickly and was released after around a week in the hospital.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #53 on: May 20, 2020, 01:55:55 PM »
I have a friend who has a bad heart and got Covid-19 and was hospitalized. He is quite thankful that he was treated with the snake-oil Hydroxychloroquine. He recovered relatively quickly and was released after around a week in the hospital.

Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.

Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.

Offline js in sc

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #54 on: May 20, 2020, 02:25:40 PM »
Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.

Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.
The major question is - Does it matter as long as it is thought to work?  You don't do it if you anticipate failure, otherwise you will never know or move forward.  The burning question is: if it were you or your family, would you attempt it or blow it off?

Offline Punter

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #55 on: May 20, 2020, 04:12:16 PM »
I am kind of done with the political aspect of this.  This country is so polarized that it is really impossible to change anyone’s mind even with facts that are not supposed to be negotiable (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts).

 Everyone expresses things from their point of view, and expects others to jump on board.  People compare this to the flu by saying how many people died in a year which is around 60,000 for the flu.   Around 100,000 died from COVID in just 3 months. There is really no comparison. 

We need testing and we need contact tracing.  Testing is not readily available when you look at this on a per capita basis which is the only way to look at it on an apples to apples basis.

I just wish people would look at the facts.  It is true that in science anecdotal evidence evidence should not be considered so these one off accounts really do not mean much if anything.  The studies show which drugs are effective or not.  If you want to rely on individual stories that is your choice but it is not science.   

Offline carol1995

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #56 on: May 20, 2020, 04:49:49 PM »
I am kind of done with the political aspect of this.  This country is so polarized that it is really impossible to change anyone’s mind even with facts that are not supposed to be negotiable (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts).

 Everyone expresses things from their point of view, and expects others to jump on board.  People compare this to the flu by saying how many people died in a year which is around 60,000 for the flu.   Around 100,000 died from COVID in just 3 months. There is really no comparison. 

We need testing and we need contact tracing.  Testing is not readily available when you look at this on a per capita basis which is the only way to look at it on an apples to apples basis.

I just wish people would look at the facts.  It is true that in science anecdotal evidence evidence should not be considered so these one off accounts really do not mean much if anything.  The studies show which drugs are effective or not.  If you want to rely on individual stories that is your choice but it is not science.

I'm really sick of the politics around this too.  No matter what one side does, the other says it's politically motivated.  And, at this point, how do we know whether it is or isn't? 

On one hand, comparing the number of flu deaths to Covid19 deaths can be a valid comparison.  Flu season is typically around 4 months each year, not 12.  We can compare the average flu season to this Covid19 season.  It sounds like Covid19 is going to be with us for the unforeseeable future and people will continue to die from it, just like the flu...no matter how good of a vaccine or treatment we get.  So, over 4 months last year, according to the CDC, around 35,000 people died from the flu.  If we compare that to Covid19, Covid19 is going to be about 3-4 times as many so that comparison could be valid. 

On the other hand, we don't know if the numbers being reported are even accurate.  According to the CDC, "Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu."  So, we don't even know how many people die from the flu.  12,000 - 61,000 is a pretty big range.  And then there is the question of how many people have actually died FROM Covid19, not just WITH Covid19.  For instance, a friend lost his dad recently.  He had been very sick for quite a while and they called in hospice.  Two days before he died, the doctor decided to test him for Covid19.  He tested positive, but he obviously didn't die from it.  He was going to die in the next week or so anyway.  The way these are being counted in many places is very inaccurate.  This is like saying a person was an alcohol related death when he was drunk in his driveway and a meteor landed on him.  I don't think alcohol played a part, but that helps pad the stats for the folks who want to prohibit alcohol.  I think we've all heard of hospitals trying to get more Covid19 deaths because the government is giving more money from those than other types of deaths. 

I don't envy the folks that have to make the decisions on when to open back up, but when things are opened back up, we (individuals) are free to decide whether or not we want to move forward.  If one doesn't feel comfortable going out to eat today, they can stay at home.  Those who do feel comfortable can go out to eat.  People all over the world make decisions every day based on how risky they think something is.  We went on vacation last summer with 4 other families.  One of the families decided to drive all the way across the country because the husband is scared to fly.  He was much more likely to die in a car wreck while driving 30 hours than the 4 hours in a plane, but that was his decision.  I don't know why this virus can't be very much like that.  Those that want to go out and risk it can and those that don't, can stay home. 

That's not to say we should be stupid in what we do.  We shouldn't go around licking handrails and doors, but one could if he/she wanted to.  Maybe it makes sense to start this football season with certain restrictions on the number of fans in the stands.  Maybe it's something different than that.  I read an opinion today that college football season would probably be played this season with no fans in the stands.  As an official, that won't be much different than many games I've worked in the past.  I've had many games where there were less than 1000 fans there.  But, it will be very different from games I've worked where there were 90,000 - 100,000 fans in the stands.  If that happens, it's going to be very strange in Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, LSU, etc.  But, football with no fans is better than no football to me.   

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2020, 06:41:51 PM »
No, there are no treatments.

There is no cure. No question about that, just as there is no cure for the common cold, or any other virus. But there is “treatment.” My medical professional contact told me that the simple instructions issued by physicians to patients with viral infections of getting lots of rest, drinking lots of water, using over-the-counter analgesics and antihistamines, monitoring body temperature, and getting to a doctor ASAP if breathing gets difficult or temperature rises is, in fact, “treatment.”
Let’s stop being afraid of our shadows and get back to life and business.

My final comment on this.

Offline riffraft

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2020, 12:28:56 PM »
Would he have recovered exactly the same way without Hydroxychloriquine? Maybe. Maybe not. One person's 'success story' has no realm in truth. Studies have proven otherwise.

Does calling that Timeout to 'ice the kicker' work if the kick misses? The winning coach will swear that the timeout worked.

Please cite the study, I would like to look at it.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2020, 08:54:51 PM »
In any given year there are X number of deaths in the USA and each year the total is pretty close to the year before.  2020 is mot different.   We can run from death, but eventually it catches up.  Those who have passed as a direct result of Coronavirus likely would have had their number drawn by some other method.  Wonder what everyone is going to do with Covid-20?  It's out there just waiting to pounce.   We just haven't been informed of its existence.   Absent the knowledge of the existence of said virus we have no reason fear.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2020, 10:57:50 PM »
I am kind of done with the political aspect of this.  (you are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts). 

We need testing and we need contact tracing. 

From what I understand, the Peoples Republic of China has a lot of experience with "Contact Tracing".  Be careful what you wish for, especially when it has the capability to expand, in all sorts of directions.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:00:27 PM by AlUpstateNY »

Offline Punter

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #61 on: May 22, 2020, 06:09:15 AM »
It’s easy to find real studies.  The internet box is an amazing tool:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

For those who do not want to read the entire article, I jump to the conclusion:

Conclusions
Among patients hospitalized in metropolitan New York with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both, compared with neither treatment, was not significantly associated with differences in in-hospital mortality. However, the interpretation of these findings may be limited by the observational design.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:12:44 AM by Punter »

Offline Etref

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #62 on: May 22, 2020, 11:38:40 AM »
Quote from: Punter link=topic=15028.msg153571#msg153571 date=1590145755

 However, the interpretation of these findings may be limited by the observational design.
[/quote

Sounds like their observational design may have been to show it does not work!
" I don't make the rules coach!"

Offline Punter

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #63 on: May 22, 2020, 11:46:25 AM »
This is from a respected peer reviewed journal. All studies of this sort are limited based on being observational.  You cannot do a real experiment in the medical realm as that would be unethical. You would have to have a control group who would get no treatment or a plecebo. The other group would get the drug.  You really cannot do that.  The second issue would be time of such a study.  COVID 19 is a new virus. A real experiment would take too long if you could do one.

The best we have right now are observational studies. The mere fact the journal pointed out the weakness of the conclusion speaks well of the researchers.

This is a perfect example of you can have your own opinion but cannot pick your own facts. Can you find a peer reviewed study that rebuts these conclusions?
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:36:40 PM by Punter »

Offline riffraft

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #64 on: May 22, 2020, 01:35:17 PM »
It’s easy to find real studies.  The internet box is an amazing tool:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

For those who do not want to read the entire article, I jump to the conclusion:

Conclusions
Among patients hospitalized in metropolitan New York with COVID-19, treatment with hydroxychloroquine, azithromycin, or both, compared with neither treatment, was not significantly associated with differences in in-hospital mortality. However, the interpretation of these findings may be limited by the observational design.

Thank you for the cite, as to doing the research, I wasn't making the claim you were, so I expect you to cite the source. And I do appreciate your sarcasm.

Offline bbeagle

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #65 on: May 22, 2020, 06:20:39 PM »
Please cite the study, I would like to look at it.

Very easy to google these.

Coronavirus patients who took hydroxychloroquine had higher risk of death, study shows

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj_o_XEzcjpAhXV854KHbFPCGYQFjAIegQICRAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fhealth%2F2020%2F05%2F22%2Fcovid-19-study-links-hydroxychloroquine-higher-risk-death%2F5244664002%2F&usg=AOvVaw3Ldjd2ZilajitA0ow6yjfA

I’ve seen no studies that have shown it works at all. All I have is Donald Trump (a known liar) saying it does. I’d be a fool to follow Donald's advice.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 06:25:15 PM by bbeagle »

Offline Etref

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Re: Fall Football and Dr. Fauci
« Reply #66 on: May 22, 2020, 06:28:52 PM »
We can all have an opinion, but let’s keep politics out of this!
" I don't make the rules coach!"