Author Topic: UNFAIR?  (Read 821 times)

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Offline Curious

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UNFAIR?
« on: May 20, 2020, 11:57:58 AM »
With 3 seconds left in a tie game, A has 2/goal from B’s 10 yd line. A attempts a FG which is blocked. B22 picks up the loose ball at their 8 and is running free at the B30 when the R inadvertently blows his whistle.
The IW has occurred during a running play with B in possession; therefore, B has the option to take the ball at their 30 or replay the down (4-2-3c).
However, since time expired during this play, rule 3 -3-3c requires period to be extended.
So, in such a play, it would appear that, not only does B lose the apparent game-winning TD, they must choose to accept the “dead ball” option effectively moving on to OT - or the replay option there-by giving A another shot at a winning field goal.
I see no rule-based option available for B to snap the ball in the extended period even though they had possession when the IW was blown. Am I missing something?


Offline Magician

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2020, 12:38:02 PM »
The period would be extended for an untimed down and snapped by B. The rules you referenced are the support that the period if extended for B. They would have to go 70 yards to score, but anything is possible. This play is proof though that IWs very rarely have anything positive. They often screw over one team significantly. Try to avoid it.

Offline NorCalMike

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2020, 10:32:58 PM »
And the white hat is buying the first round. ^flag

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2020, 09:47:12 AM »
3-3-3c had to be tweaked a few years ago as an untimed down would only be allowed if replaying the down was chosen. The change was sparked by a play in a state championship game where an  interception had occurred as the clock ran out in the first half. It was to become a pic-six until an eager  :!# tweeter  :!# sounded his horn pi1eOn. and, BY RULE, the half ended. Today it wouldn't. I believe it occurred in Michigan. In the OP, the temptation to tweet :o can be strong as reacting to a PAT blocked.

WH should still buy the rounds!

Offline SCline

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2020, 09:42:11 PM »
Ralph, any thoughts about allowing both coaches the option to start the clock on the snap after an IW inside of 2 minutes of a half, instead of the current (in my mind somewhat inequitable) always start on the RFP? Essentially if one coach would like it to start on the snap it will start on the snap, if both coaches don’t want it starting on the snap it would be on RFP. Similar to (not exactly alike) the offended coach on a foul.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2020, 05:36:45 PM »
Generally, for a very long time, the game seems to work fairly well when in conforms to the rules, rather than try and customize the rules to conform to a particular game.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2020, 10:54:34 AM »
Ralph, any thoughts about allowing both coaches the option to start the clock on the snap after an IW inside of 2 minutes of a half, instead of the current (in my mind somewhat inequitable) always start on the RFP? Essentially if one coach would like it to start on the snap it will start on the snap, if both coaches don’t want it starting on the snap it would be on RFP. Similar to (not exactly alike) the offended coach on a foul.
Good question, SCline, to my knowledge it has never came up. If the eager tweeter tweeted while time had expired during a play, an untimed down would be allowed.

Offline SCline

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2020, 10:32:14 PM »
Absolutely agree with an untimed down on an IW during a down in which time expires. However consider this paraphrased test question from a few years ago.

A Ball at the A40 1/10 0:12 left to play in the 4th quarter. A6 takes the snap throws to A80 completes the pass, then B6 tackles A80 by the facemask  ^flag at the B48. 8 seconds left on the clock. A accepts the foul and elects to have the clock start on the snap. A ball at B33. On the following play there is an IW with 4 seconds remaining with A in possession of the ball. They take the option to replay the down; however the clock starts on the RFP due to the IW so they only get 4 seconds after the RFP. Seems inequitable.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2020, 07:13:06 AM »
Absolutely agree with an untimed down on an IW during a down in which time expires. However consider this paraphrased test question from a few years ago.

A Ball at the A40 1/10 0:12 left to play in the 4th quarter. A6 takes the snap throws to A80 completes the pass, then B6 tackles A80 by the facemask  ^flag at the B48. 8 seconds left on the clock. A accepts the foul and elects to have the clock start on the snap. A ball at B33. On the following play there is an IW with 4 seconds remaining with A in possession of the ball. They take the option to replay the down; however the clock starts on the RFP due to the IW so they only get 4 seconds after the RFP. Seems inequitable.
IMHO, choosing to replay the down, that started the clock on the snap by the offended team's choice, would allow them to again choose to start on the snap. IMHO, in situations with only seconds to go, if the clock is going to start on the RFP, the WH should yell : "CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY, CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY..." just before the RFP.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2020, 09:14:57 AM »
IMHO, choosing to replay the down, that started the clock on the snap by the offended team's choice, would allow them to again choose to start on the snap. IMHO, in situations with only seconds to go, if the clock is going to start on the RFP, the WH should yell : "CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY, CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY..." just before the RFP.

Sounds like a really simple, practical, common sense (acceptable "preventive officiating") practice, that alerts BOTH teams (simultaneously) that something important is imminent.  There's also no need, or reason, to then rush the RFP after such an announcement.

Offline prab

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Re: UNFAIR?
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2020, 11:15:53 AM »
IMHO, choosing to replay the down, that started the clock on the snap by the offended team's choice, would allow them to again choose to start on the snap. IMHO, in situations with only seconds to go, if the clock is going to start on the RFP, the WH should yell : "CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY, CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY..." just before the RFP.
I agree in principle, but would suggest that instead of yelling "CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY, CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY...", yell CLOCK STARTS ON MY WHISTLE, CLOCK STARTS ON MY WHISTLE...".  I actually have a reason for this suggestion:

A recent rule change makes official the practice of asking the coach regarding penalties instead of asking the captain.  WHY?  Captains were apparently confused and/or indecisive, probably based on lack of rules knowledge. (I realize that most officials had already adopted this policy even though the rule book said talk to the captain.)  Many officials have adjusted their coin toss procedures to try to make sure that the coin toss winner doesn't choose to kick off, believing that his team will then get to receive to start the 3rd quarter.  Just try asking captains at the coin toss what "READY FOR PLAY" means.  How many will know?  Then ask the same captains the definition of "lateral" means and I am guessing that almost all would "know" even though the term isn't in the rule book. 

What I am trying to get at is that CLOCK STARTS ON THE READY may confuse some HS athletes, whereas CLOCK STARTS ON MY WHISTLE won't confuse anyone.