Author Topic: 10 second subtraction Webinar  (Read 7912 times)

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Online ElvisLives

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10 second subtraction Webinar
« on: August 05, 2020, 12:19:34 PM »
TASO members got a good (free) webinar from Arnold Gladson last night, covering the 10-second subtraction (or "runoff," as you please).

I was, however, surprised at how many folks didn't grasp the concept of the types of fouls that could qualify for the 10SS. The foul itself must cause the clock to stop at the moment the foul occurs (and the ball to become dead, if alive before this foul occurs). Some (but not all) examples are: intentional grounding or other illegal passes thrown to conserve time; false start; offside with contact. If the game clock is running, these fouls cause the clock to stop immediately and simultaneously with the foul. Live-ball fouls that occur during the down, but do not cause the ball to become dead and the clock to stop, do not qualify for the 10SS. Some (but not all) examples are: holding; block in the back; block below the waist; pass interference. The ball remains alive after these fouls occur. The fouls, themselves, do not cause the clock to stop immediately and simultaneously with the foul. Yes, the clock will eventually stop to complete the penalty, or for some other reason (such as ball/ball carrier out of bounds, line-to-gain reached, etc.). But, such fouls are not committed for the purpose of getting the clock stopped, so they will not qualify for the 10SS.

Other things that qualify for the 10SS do not necessarily cause the clock to stop when they occur, but do cause the clock to stop when the ball becomes dead, if there is no other reason for the clock to stop. These things are: a helmet coming off (not due to a helmet-related foul), and an injured player. If either of these events occur, the clock is stopped when the ball becomes dead (unless it is the ball carrier - then it becomes dead when the helmet comes off), and it will qualify for the 10SS. However, if there is anything else that causes the clock to stop, such as A reaching the LTG, completion of a penalty, ball or BC out of bounds, incomplete pass, touchdown, touchback, safety, etc., then the offending team gains no game clock advantage by losing a helmet or being injured. In those cases, the loss of a helmet or injury do not qualify for the 10SS.

But, in any event, the game clock must be less than 1 minute in the 2nd or 4th periods and RUNNING for any event to qualify for a 10SS. And the offended team always has the opportunity to decline the 10SS. If associated with a foul, the offended team may accept the distance penalty, but decline the 10SS, if they choose. If they decline the distance penalty, the 10SS is also declined (by rule).

The offending team can avoid the 10SS by taking a team time out (if available). If this event is a helmet off, the team time out would also "buy" the player back into the game. However, that doesn't work for an injured player - an injured player may not participate in the next down - no exceptions (even if over change of period or half-time). They can avoid the 10SS with a team T/O, but the injured player has to remain out for a down.

Helmets off by both teams do not qualify for the 10SS. Injuries by both teams do not qualify for the 10SS.
(By the way, if helmets come off of opposing players, a charged team time out by ONE team does NOT allow the opposing player to return to the game. They must "buy" him back into the game with their own team T/O.)

All of this was discussed in the webinar. These are good things, and everyone should take advantage of these roughly 1-hour webinars. Good stuff.

 

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2020, 01:25:08 PM »
One that people get hung up on is when an injury or helmet off occurs on a play in which the clock is running at the end of the down and then we need to measure to determine if it's a first down.  The result of that measurement will determine if we have a 10 SS or not.   If they get the first, no subtraction, if short, zap 10.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2020, 04:22:18 PM »
One that people get hung up on is when an injury or helmet off occurs on a play in which the clock is running at the end of the down and then we need to measure to determine if it's a first down.  The result of that measurement will determine if we have a 10 SS or not.   If they get the first, no subtraction, if short, zap 10.

Yes! And that was discussed last night, as well (as you well know  ;)).  Of note is that at least one "attendee" commented that he "wasn't buying that." Well, we can lead them to water...

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2020, 05:44:04 PM »
Is this a TASO interpretation? I haven't seen this in a CFO bulletin, AR, or quiz. Why wouldn't stopping the clock at the end of a down for a potential measurement not be treated the same as anything else listed under 3-1-2-d or -e?

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2020, 05:53:10 PM »
Is this a TASO interpretation? I haven't seen this in a CFO bulletin, AR, or quiz. Why wouldn't stopping the clock at the end of a down for a potential measurement not be treated the same as anything else listed under 3-1-2-d or -e?

Because we are stopping the clock for the helmet first.  If it's a first down, then that's the reason we are stopping the clock.  If it's not a first down we revert back to the helmet being the reason we stopped it.

Offline Legacy Zebra

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2020, 06:01:37 PM »
That doesn't answer the question. If I stop the clock because it's close and we need to measure, what is the difference between that and anything else under 3-1-2-d or -e? The clock was still stopped at the end of the down for something other than the imjury/helmet.

Offline Hondo

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10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2020, 10:53:02 PM »
So stopping the clock for 3-3-2-e-7 doesn’t matter? The helmet is not the only reason we are stopping the clock.  Where’s the justification for ignoring   stopping the clock for “A possible first-down measurement.”


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Offline psv

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2020, 09:10:16 AM »
Is there a link to this somewhere?

I also thought the breakouts were supposed to be free.... and not $53....

Offline TXMike

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2020, 10:43:00 AM »
These are free.  There have been TASO email blasts prior to each one. This is tonight’s (passing game).

https://event.webinarjam.com/channel/2020TASOFBPassGame

Offline TxBJ

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2020, 10:39:48 AM »
Is there a link to this somewhere?

I also thought the breakouts were supposed to be free.... and not $53....

The $53 is for the mandatory videos for those that did not tune in live (which was cheaper). The extra sessions that are now being held, and can be watched later, are free.  Or “included” if you prefer.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: 10 second subtraction Webinar
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2020, 03:34:37 PM »
If you want to watch the original live state meeting and registered for the live event,  simply go to the original link and use the password you were given.