This question is a bit like the one "First Touching on a Punt?"

[juxone]

In federation ball, K punts the ball down field and 4 K players surround the ball as it bounces on the ground, R is within 5 yards of the ball. BEFORE the ball stops K puts his foot on the ball, stopping it and then abandons the ball.  Can R pick the ball return it since K never had possession of the ball or is it dead by rule? 

[bossman72]

4-2-2f implies that if the ball is at rest and the kickers touch it, it's dead.  I'm assuming that if it's still moving and they touch it, it's still a live ball, with a violation for first touching.  K should always pick it up and hand it to the official to avoid any potential confusion.

[Derek Teigen]

4-2-2f implies that if the ball is at rest and the kickers touch it, it's dead.  I'm assuming that if it's still moving and they touch it, it's still a live ball, with a violation for first touching.  K should always pick it up and hand it to the official to avoid any potential confusion.

this happened to me in High School.  It was against our arch rival and we forced a punt...it was bouncing around and came to a stop I touched the ball and then started to go back to my sideline and the next thing I know K recovers the ball and runs it into the endzone.  Of course I am beside myself on the sidelines wondering what just happened but then after a conference with the officials they called the ball dead where I had touched it and we started our series from there.  I am sure the ball had stopped rolling when I touched it so it should have been blown dead.

[HLinNC]

I think you mean R.

[juxone]

      To clear it up, perhaps... Again this was/is a punt. K has punted the ball down field and K players surround the ball as it bounces on the ground. R has several players within 5 yards of the ball- so clearly they have not "abandoned" the ball.  While the ball is rolling on the ground and still in motion K puts his foot on the ball, stopping it, then leaves the ball on the ground.  The ball did not roll "dead" it was stopped.  Can R pick the ball return it since K never had possession but it was a first touching.

[HLinNC]

4-2-ART. 2 . . . The ball becomes dead and the down is ended:
e. When any loose ball:

2. Is on the ground motionless and no player attempts to secure
possession.

Now apply this to your play.

[bossman72]

      To clear it up, perhaps... Again this was/is a punt. K has punted the ball down field and K players surround the ball as it bounces on the ground. R has several players within 5 yards of the ball- so clearly they have not "abandoned" the ball.  While the ball is rolling on the ground and still in motion K puts his foot on the ball, stopping it, then leaves the ball on the ground.  The ball did not roll "dead" it was stopped.  Can R pick the ball return it since K never had possession but it was a first touching.

If it happens this way then I would keep it alive and let it be returned.

[CalhounLJ]

      To clear it up, perhaps... Again this was/is a punt. K has punted the ball down field and K players surround the ball as it bounces on the ground. R has several players within 5 yards of the ball- so clearly they have not "abandoned" the ball.  While the ball is rolling on the ground and still in motion K puts his foot on the ball, stopping it, then leaves the ball on the ground.  The ball did not roll "dead" it was stopped.  Can R pick the ball return it since K never had possession but it was a first touching.

If K puts his foot on it and stops it, I'm blowing my whistle. It's dead and a new series for R.

[dch]

Whatever you think the "technical" correct answer might be it is better to blow it dead if the ball is motionless or nearly so.  Big, big can of worms if you let the play go! 
Our group had to deal with a similar punt situation many years ago and the old timers remember it well.

[juxone]

I agree best to blow it dead, but years ago when I started I had a white hat get upset that I did- I always remembered that. But last year I had a coach get upset because of that exact play.. , after K1 put his foot on the ball and turned away, R picked it up and headed for the endzone. Of course it was called back and there was much discussion about it. I have opted to take the position that the ball was "dead" in the field of play. Of course the argument was -- you guessed it.. it did not roll dead.  Just wanted some others thoughts. 

[CalhounLJ]

I’m wondering where the idea that the ball has to “roll dead” came from? As far as I know, K can pick it up while it’s rolling and stop it that way. If that’s true, why can’t he put his foot on it and make it “dead”? When/if the ball is motionless with no R attempting to gain possession, it’s time to blow it and move on. 


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[CalhounLJ]

As far as “abandoning” the ball, I’ve never read that term either. If R is not actively trying to recover it, i.e., physically moving toward it with intent to pick it up, it doesn’t matter how close they are standing to it.


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[juxone]

Sorry-- my bad--, I simply used the term "abandoning, or abandoned" as a short hand way of saying "not making any attempt to recover or otherwise go after the ball for play."

[AlUpstateNY]

A really great opportunity for a BJ (or other deep Official) AFTER making a prudent, rational judgment of what he's observed, to render som practical  PREVENTIVE OFFICIATING to a K player attempting to "down" the kick and end the play, suggesting to the K player(s), "when you want to end the play, pick the ball up and hand it to me, ELIMINATING the risk of R from trying to subsequently advance it".

[Ralph Damren]

When faced with a situation of this sort, I would choose to go with the easiest explanation :

TO K's COACH : "Well, the ball may have stopped rolling after your player stepped on it, he hadn't really gained possession per rule 2-34-1. Therefore I'm going to allow the  to stand by the receiver who picked the ball up after your players were walking away, thinking the play was dead. " (K's coaching staff)

TO R's COACH : " The kicker's teammate touched the ball until it was dead."    (R,s coaching staff) . Rule support: 2-44.

I believe that I would go with the second choice, I also believed that the Red Sox would win this year's World Series.....I don't believe that any more  .

  (5-man crew)

[KWH]

How about this suggestion:

"Hey coach, can you possibly work with number 8 to actually him to down the football by say picking it up?
This would avoid any and all confusion AND it will prevent any cheap touchdowns by your opponent in the future.

[CalhounLJ]

Ok?

[juxone]

When faced with a situation of this sort, I would choose to go with the easiest explanation :

TO K's COACH : "Well, the ball may have stopped rolling after your player stepped on it, he hadn't really gained possession per rule 2-34-1. Therefore I'm going to allow the  to stand by the receiver who picked the ball up after your players were walking away, thinking the play was dead. " (K's coaching staff)

TO R's COACH : " The kicker's teammate touched the ball until it was dead."    (R,s coaching staff) . Rule support: 2-44.

I believe that I would go with the second choice, I also believed that the Red Sox would win this year's World Series.....I don't believe that any more  .

  (5-man crew)

Really great observation!  Thanks.