In your opinion,

[NVFOA_Ump]

It has been my understanding that USC is a non-contact foul.  Pushing or making contact with an opposing player should be called a personal foul, which does not count toward ejection like USC.  If one player pushes an opponent, and he pushes back, then you could call it fighting.

I'm not sure I'd call it fighting, but if the acts include any of the UNC components (language, taunting, standing over an opponent, etc.) then independent of the physical part you have at your discretion a UNC call.  If needed to control the game call both UNR and UNC.  We've done it before and it pretty quickly puts and end to the BS.

[CalhounLJ]

Here is NC's criteria for Fighting: . Fighting, which includes, but is not limited to, combative acts such as:*An attempt to strike an opponent with a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet*An attempt to punch or kick an opponent, regardless of whether or not contact is made*An attempt to instigate a fight by committing an unsportsmanlike act toward an opponent that causes an opponent to retaliate.

Is a shove "an attempt to strike an opponent with..hands......"  Maybe.  I think you would have to judge the totality of the circumstances.  Just a solitary "get off me" shove and turning away, I'm not considering that a fight.  If you get a shove and a say a flex or stare down or "get off me MF'er" then I think we are headed into "an attempt to instigate a fight...." and under our criteria would qualify.

This is good. I may copy it and send it to my assigner as a suggestion. Thanks to all who engaged this topic. All opinions were helpful.

[bama_stripes]

Our state would not sustain an immediate ejection for fighting for what you’ve described; however, the 2-16-2c definition of a flagrant foul includes “violations that are extremely or persistently vulgar or abusive conduct.” (my emphasis)

I would flag for UNR on the first occurrence and consider any repeat act by the same offender to be flagrant and ejectionable.

[CalhounLJ]

That makes sense. At this time, my state is not in the habit of sustaining any ejections, but at least I can get the bad apple out of my game. Btw, this is part of the problem in my state.

So, in this instance, do you write down the number of the offender the first time? Because that’s not a normal,practice for me.  I do record USC, but not UNR.

[stevegarbs]

Our state would not sustain an immediate ejection for fighting for what you’ve described; however, the 2-16-2c definition of a flagrant foul includes “violations that are extremely or persistently vulgar or abusive conduct.” (my emphasis)

I would flag for UNR on the first occurrence and consider any repeat act by the same offender to be flagrant and ejectionable.

The part in bold is how I have been taught and applied the available rules for the past 25+ years. Remember, 9-4-4 Illegal Personal Contact PENALTY says "Disqualification also if any fouls under these articles are judged by the game official to be flagrant." We always record the number of players who commit one of these fouls and take note when he does it a second or third time. Recidivists are disqualified.


On another note, does the first part of your answer mean that Alabama would reinstate a player who was disqualified if they determine you made an error in judgement?

[ncwingman]

On another note, does the first part of your answer mean that Alabama would reinstate a player who was disqualified if they determine you made an error in judgement?

I can't speak for Alabama, but I do know that coaches will appeal supplemental discipline post-ejection in North Carolina and students have been reinstated after review. The ejection obviously stands for that game, but it comes with an automatic additional game or two suspension depending on the reason.

For example, player comes off the bench during a fight, so the officials flag and toss #83, but it turns out it was #88 ... or that #83 was already on the field and didn't come off the bench... that can be corrected with video evidence. If #83 gets tossed for saying "That M-F-er!" is going to stand because there's no audio that would pick that up. Not putting specific words in anybody's mouth, the implication is that we should flag and toss if it's questionable and the state will reverse the suspension if needed -- err on the side of safety. The state can't/won't suspend a player later that *should* have been a flag/ejection but it wasn't called in game.

There are a bunch of other hoops that coaches have to jump through to appeal as well, so every ejection is not appealed an overturned.

[AlUpstateNY]

What may happen, or change, after a game is over in not within the game official's responsibility, or control.  However, the game officials judgment, as to what level of remedy is appropriate for behavior during a specific game is EXCLUSIVELY decided by the game officials, and pertains to ONLY the specific behavior being assessed, and it's potential effect, on that particular contest.

Coaches (and/or players) are not REQUIRED to agree with those decisions, but they are REQUIRED to accept them, and whatever consequences may be assigned. There is no authorization in either NFHS 1-1-6, or 1-1-9 for any mandatory consultation, discussion or appeal, although game officials can CHOOSE if, when and to what, if any, extent, they alone deem necessary, to consider, what may be perceived as relevant additional detail.

Ageless advice still prevails, "if you can't do the time, DON'T do the crime).

[bama_stripes]

On another note, does the first part of your answer mean that Alabama would reinstate a player who was disqualified if they determine you made an error in judgement?

In Alabama, the first ejection doesn’t carry a suspension — it’s a $300 fine.  So if a participant is ejected for fighting and their action doesn’t meet the 2-11 definition, it will likely be overturned on appeal.  That would fall under the category of misapplying a rule, not an error in judgement.

[KWH]

Flag him for PF/UNR

Get in his face. Let him know you saw exactly what he did.

Tell him if he does it again you will deem it to be a FLAGRANT ACT.

Stop the game long enough to Advise his Head Coach (So he can not later claim he knew nothing about it.)

[Ralph Damren]

In situations such as this, I've had success in bringing the two combatants together and applied a "Come to Jesus" speech:

"GUY(S) ,I WANT TO KEEP YOU IN THE GAME AS YOUR TEAM(S) NEED(S) YOU. CAN YOU (BOTH) SHAKE HANDS AND AGREE TO PLAY HARD BUT CLEAN?"

I've only had one problem, when a big ole' Bubba responded: "You can't make me shake his hand, ref !"
I replied : "NO, I can't BUT I can watch you every play AND you better play clean  >"
Big ole' Bubba then hugged his opponent and said : LET'S BE GOOD...WE PALS  !"

…….and the band played on

[AlUpstateNY]

Goes to show, Common sense is STILL the beat tool in our belt, followed closely by, "Always Be nice, until it's time to NOT be nice"

[KWH]

Goes to show, Common sense is STILL the beat tool in our belt, followed closely by, "Always Be nice, until it's time to NOT be nice"

And remember, you heard it hear here first,
Never enter the field without your beat tool in your belt!   

[AlUpstateNY]

Thankfully, typing skills are clearly of secondary significance.

[CalhounLJ]

And remember, you heard it hear first,
Never enter the field without your beat tool in your belt!   

FWIW, I didn't hear anything hear. All I heared was over yonder.

[KWH]

Touche'