Interesting real life down

[ElvisLives]

(Note: Also posted under "NCAA" discussion area.)

Nothing like real life experience.
 
Varsity game (using NCAA rules).
4/10, A-20, 3:00 (3) (score irrelevant).
A11 is in position to receive a deep snap, ostensibly to punt. The snap is high, and, when A11 reaches high to attempt to catch it, the ball strikes A11's hand, deflecting laterally and slightly backward. With the ball bounding laterally and slightly backward, A11, now pursuing the ball with defenders approaching rapidly, swats the ball with his hand at the A-7, and the ball moves further laterally, and toward the A-8. After players from both teams attempt to recover the ball, the ball bounds out of bounds at the B-9.   

As I sit here and compose this message, this seems so easy. Illegal batting by A11. 10-yard (or 1/2 the distance) penalty, PLUS loss of down, from the spot of the foul. Thus, Team B will get possession of the ball at the B-3 1/2 yard line, 1/G.

But, as this happened to me last night - for the first time in my 45 season career, I might add - my mind was racing as to the enforcement spot. We get so used to 3 and 1 enforcements and the 'exceptions' for certain Team A fouls (holding, etc.), I initially was thinking, "Previous spot?" But, immediately, something about that didn't seem right. Then I conferred with some of my crew, and we stepped through it, and realized, "No. This is a specific spot enforcement, i.e., spot of the foul."  And, with the loss-of-down, Team B was going to get the ball where the distance penalty left it.

So, we put the ball at the A-3 1/2, and I made the announcement, "Illegal batting, number 11, kicking team. Half the distance to the goal, and loss of down. First down - National High (fictitious name)." (Yes, I said, "kicking team," when I should have said "offense," since there was never a kick.)

As I watched the play develop, and saw A11 chasing the ball, I had the distinct feeling he was going to go ahead and kick the loose ball. But, then he bent over and swatted the ball, to keep approaching defenders from being able to fall on the ball and recover it.

Those types of situations are like the one good drive you hit in a round of golf - it keeps you coming back. 

[JDM]

(Note: Also posted under "NCAA" discussion area.)

Nothing like real life experience.
 
Varsity game (using NCAA rules).
4/10, A-20, 3:00 (3) (score irrelevant).
A11 is in position to receive a deep snap, ostensibly to punt. The snap is high, and, when A11 reaches high to attempt to catch it, the ball strikes A11's hand, deflecting laterally and slightly backward. With the ball bounding laterally and slightly backward, A11, now pursuing the ball with defenders approaching rapidly, swats the ball with his hand at the A-7, and the ball moves further laterally, and toward the A-8. After players from both teams attempt to recover the ball, the ball bounds out of bounds at the B-9.   

As I sit here and compose this message, this seems so easy. Illegal batting by A11. 10-yard (or 1/2 the distance) penalty, PLUS loss of down, from the spot of the foul. Thus, Team B will get possession of the ball at the B-3 1/2 yard line, 1/G.

But, as this happened to me last night - for the first time in my 45 season career, I might add - my mind was racing as to the enforcement spot. We get so used to 3 and 1 enforcements and the 'exceptions' for certain Team A fouls (holding, etc.), I initially was thinking, "Previous spot?" But, immediately, something about that didn't seem right. Then I conferred with some of my crew, and we stepped through it, and realized, "No. This is a specific spot enforcement, i.e., spot of the foul."  And, with the loss-of-down, Team B was going to get the ball where the distance penalty left it.

So, we put the ball at the A-3 1/2, and I made the announcement, "Illegal batting, number 11, kicking team. Half the distance to the goal, and loss of down. First down - National High (fictitious name)." (Yes, I said, "kicking team," when I should have said "offense," since there was never a kick.)

As I watched the play develop, and saw A11 chasing the ball, I had the distinct feeling he was going to go ahead and kick the loose ball. But, then he bent over and swatted the ball, to keep approaching defenders from being able to fall on the ball and recover it.

Those types of situations are like the one good drive you hit in a round of golf - it keeps you coming back. 

Which make me wonder. Other than "ball fouls" as in the play described and LB UNS committed behind the NZ, what other foul(s) committed by Team A under 10-2-2-b would qualify as a spot foul?

[ElvisLives]

Well, as it turns out, we got this right, but not for the right reason.

Illegal batting and illegally kicking the ball are, in fact, Basic Spot enforcements. The penalty statements for both specify a distance, and include the "loss of down" for Team A fouls. And, we know that, when no enforcement spot is specified, live-ball fouls are Basic Spot/3 & 1 enforcement (with exceptions for LBFPADBFs).

And this is a scrimmage kick down, so the Basic Spot is the previous spot. The spot of the foul, by Team A, was behind the Basic Spot, so the penalty is enforced from the spot of the foul. Add the loss-of-down, and we got it right.

Had it been a Team B foul, we might have penalized from the spot of the foul, which would have been incorrect. (Whew!)

[Legacy Zebra]

This is not a scrimmage kick down, as there was no scrimmage kick. This whole play is a single running play that started at the snap. Even if he had illegally kicked the loose ball, it would still be a running play since it wasn’t a legal scrimmage kick. Although in this case because the basic spot would still be the previous spot. But it’s important to know if, for example, there was a block below the waist it would be legal. Or if he had illegally kicked the ball beyond the neutral zone and team B fouled, PSK wouldn’t apply.

[ElvisLives]

This is not a scrimmage kick down, as there was no scrimmage kick. This whole play is a single running play that started at the snap. Even if he had illegally kicked the loose ball, it would still be a running play since it wasn’t a legal scrimmage kick. Although in this case because the basic spot would still be the previous spot. But it’s important to know if, for example, there was a block below the waist it would be legal. Or if he had illegally kicked the ball beyond the neutral zone and team B fouled, PSK wouldn’t apply.

Of course. And I even acknowledged that in my original message. Just brain farted on this follow up. The point was that illegal batting and illegally kicking the ball are, in fact, Basic Spot/3 and 1 enforcements.
I will get this right for the right reason next time.