Turnover Downs

[yummyV]

When a turnover on downs occurs is there a particular signal the referee makes. If so does anyone have an image of what it looks like?

Thanks.

[ElvisLives]

No, there is no signal other than the Referee signaling first down for Team B.

[Kalle]

I think Elvis's answer applies to all (three major) codes (NFL, NCAA and NFHS).

[yarnnelg]

Other than "stop the clock"?

As Line Judge, I have the best view on whether or not the LTG was achieved. If it's close, I usually will call out to "check" as I'm stopping the clock. If it's short and definitely short, I'm signaling stop the clock and verbal short! Short! White Hat will give it look , then signal if he wants chains or not.

Any way, stopping the clock comes first.

[JasonTX]

Other than "stop the clock"?

As Line Judge, I have the best view on whether or not the LTG was achieved. If it's close, I usually will call out to "check" as I'm stopping the clock. If it's short and definitely short, I'm signaling stop the clock and verbal short! Short! White Hat will give it look , then signal if he wants chains or not.

Any way, stopping the clock comes first.

I want the L to make the call.  No need for me as R to look at it.  The majority of our games are on turf so very few measurements.  That doesn't mean my L doesn't always have the "courage" to make a decision so if I do have to look at it, we are going to measure just so nobody thinks we are cheating them.

[AlUpstateNY]

I want the L to make the call.  No need for me as R to look at it.  The majority of our games are on turf so very few measurements.  That doesn't mean my L doesn't always have the "courage" to make a decision so if I do have to look at it, we are going to measure just so nobody thinks we are cheating them.

Either suggestion is practical and appropriate way to alert the Referee to "award" a new series of downs as described in NFHS 5-2-a & b, however,  the LJ, facing the Down Marker, as suggested above, is usually in the best position to observe and confirm whether the LTG has, or has not, been reached, and when appropriate stop the game clock.

An important "exception", in the NFHS code is included in NFHS 5-3-2, advises: " A measurement may be requested by the captain prior to the ball being ready for play, but it may be denied if, in the referee's opinion, it is obvious the line to gain has or has not been reached."

[yarnnelg]

I've always been very vocal at the end of each play. My White Hat knows if I'm singing out 2nd Down ...he knows I am on the spot and on the money gain wise. I get a little louder on those 4th down plays when it's "turnover on downs" situations. When I first joined that crew it was after a five year pause because I was flying all over the country. In the first game .....when we went into the locker room ...Tim (White Hat) said ..."keep calling them out ...saves me a whole of time and guessing."

[JasonTX]

I've always been very vocal at the end of each play. My White Hat knows if I'm singing out 2nd Down ...he knows I am on the spot and on the money gain wise. I get a little louder on those 4th down plays when it's "turnover on downs" situations. When I first joined that crew it was after a five year pause because I was flying all over the country. In the first game .....when we went into the locker room ...Tim (White Hat) said ..."keep calling them out ...saves me a whole of time and guessing."

Excellent job.  Been trying to preach this to L's and it's like pulling teeth trying to accomplish that.

[dammitbobby]

I’ll add that to my little list of ‘mini mechanics’ to try to put into practice.

[AlUpstateNY]

I've always been very vocal at the end of each play. My White Hat knows if I'm singing out 2nd Down ...he knows I am on the spot and on the money gain wise. I get a little louder on those 4th down plays when it's "turnover on downs" situations. When I first joined that crew it was after a five year pause because I was flying all over the country. In the first game .....when we went into the locker room ...Tim (White Hat) said ..."keep calling them out ...saves me a whole of time and guessing."

Sounds like a sensible, appropriate practice.  Considering the R may well be 10-20+ yds behind the eventual dead ball spot, focusing on the LJ to stop the game clock (and/or L or U, depending on the situation) avoids wasted game time, as the R approaches the spot, reviewing if other factors affecting the play (flags, injured players or officials, etc.) may have occurred, and designates a new series is declared.

Chain crews should be advised NOT to move to relocate the chains, until the R makes the designation ( or the HL so instructs) to avoid confusion if/when the advance is cancelled.  The two step process, clock stoppage by the FJ, followed by the R's visible designation of a new series, avoids subsequent clock recalculations when additional factors are discovered after the clock has been stopped.

Should the R determine the actual dead ball spot is behind the original LTG, he simply clarifies that spot, and when ready makes the appropriate adjustments and restarts the game clock, as appropriate.

[ElvisLives]

Yes, the LOS guy opposite the chains (could be the L or H, depending on crew size, and which half of the game) needs to make judgments on reasonably certain first downs, or short, and give appropriate notification to the R, verbally, via hand signals, with O2O, or a combination of any of those. If it too close for him to make a reasonably accurate judgment, fine. Let the R know that it is close, and the R will move to the spot and take a quick look to confirm if he needs a measurement, or signal first down, or short (and next down).
My L does a fairly good job of that, but I have asked him to be a bit quicker and more definitive about those close situations. If a first, great. Stop the clock and give me a clear, but not demonstrative, signal. If short, give a timely and "big" dead-ball signal, followed by the next down signal, with a clear verbal notification. If short, just use the dead-ball signal, but with a strong verbal signal to notify me that it is close, and I need to take a look.
We have had three measurements, so far this season. Two were what I call "PR" measurements, just to make the teams and spectators happy, even though the result was reasonably clear to us. One was legitimately too close to call from far across the field.
Yes, we try to put the ball on a line when there is a new series at the end of a run, as often as practical. But, you can't always do that. So, yes, we do have measurements.

[yarnnelg]

Excellent job.  Been trying to preach this to L's and it's like pulling teeth trying to accomplish that.

I coached 13-15 year olds in baseball. I would stand behind catchers, short stops and second basemen in the first practices while the other coach hit infield or situational series. "Yell! I want your Mom in the house to hear why she should be in the stands watching you play!"

I would tell catchers "There are moments where every back in the park is facing you. It's your job to tell them where to go with the ball. Silence is a lost game and I can't stand to lose. You don't want me mad."

In fourth down plays where I could not see the stick because of traffic or a pile...I'll shout "My spot! My spot" (if It's my spot of course) I'll also let the HL know "Your's Your's!" know the situation, know what you need to do. Make your sideline know you are at top of the game.