Author Topic: S/B Weekly Quiz 12  (Read 375 times)

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Online ElvisLives

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S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« on: November 19, 2020, 09:12:31 PM »
1. 3/10 @ B-15. QB A12 rolls out and spots A88 in the back of the end zone and throws a legal forward pass to him. A88 leaps and gains firm control of the football while airborne and is clearly inside the end line by a yard and one half. B21 in an effort to break up the pass hits airborne A88 who clearly would have come down in the end zone and knocks him back so A88 first touches the ground just beyond the end line. A88 maintains firm control of the ball as he falls to the ground.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, 4/10, B-15, snap (40 and running).
A player must first return to the ground inbounds to complete a catch, even if contacted by another player (teammate or opponent). Incomplete pass.


2. 2/4 @A-30. Airborne eligible receiver A82 receives a legal forward pass at the A-35. As he receives the ball, A82 is contacted by B18 and first comes to the ground with the ball at the A-33, then steps out of bounds. When the ball becomes dead the game clock stops at 1:05 in the first quarter.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, 1/10, A-35, ready (40 and running).
When an airborne player firmly holds a previously loose ball, and is contacted by an opponent causing him to return the ground (inbounds) behind the spot where he first held the ball firmly, he is given progress to the spot where he first firmly held the ball, and the ball is dead at that point. In this case, the ball was dead in the field of play, so the clock would stop to award a first down to Team A, then re-start when the ball is ready for play for the next down.


3. 4/10 @ B-45. During A91’s punt the untouched ball is at rest on the Team B three-yard line when B22 blocks A80 into the ball, forcing it into the end zone where it touches the ground.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
B, 1/10, B-20, snap (25).
The touching by A80 is forced touching and is ignored. When the ball touches the ground in the end zone, the ball is dead, and results in a touchback.


4. 4/8 @ 50. The snap to punter A19 is over his head. He retreats to the A-20 where he picks up the ball and kicks it while on the run. B25 holds gunner A44 at the B-40 during the kick. The ball lands on the A-49 where B11 recovers it and advances to the A-40.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A,1/10, B-40, snap (25).
Since the punted ball did not cross the neutral zone, PSK does not apply. The “clean hands” provision does not apply, since Team B committed the holding foul before actually gaining possession. Thus, the enforcement spot for the penalty for B25’s holding foul is the previous spot, since it occurred during a legal kick down, 10 yards, which results in a first down for Team A.


5. 4/5 @ A-15. Team A leads 27-24 with 0:04 in the fourth quarter. Punter A22 muffs the snap and as it is rolling on the ground at the A-5, he kicks it into and back through the end zone. Time expires in the fourth quarter.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
B, 1/G, A-2 ˝, snap (25).
The natural result of the down is a safety (2 points for B). However, A22 commits a foul for illegally kicking the ball, which is penalized at the spot of the foul, ˝ the distance, and includes Loss of Down. Since it had been 4th down, Team B gets the ball, 1st down. Acceptance of the penalty requires that a down free from foul be played, in the extended period. Team B will put the ball in play for an untimed down. Note that this is a situation to use the “Untimed Down” signal (it is NOT intended to be used for tries).


6. 3/5 @ B-10. Team A trails 27-20 with 0:02 remaining in the fourth quarter. A12 completes a pass to A88 in the end zone, making the score 27-26. B90 is flagged for roughing the passer. Time expires on the play.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, try, B-3, no clock (25); and A, 1/10, B-12 ˝ or B, 1/10, B-40 in the Extra Period if Team A ties the score with a field goal on the try.
The roughing the passer penalty can be enforced either on the try, or at the succeeding spot in the Extra Period, if there will be one. Team A will most certainly elect to have the penalty enforced at the extra period (if there will be one).



7. 4/6 @ A-24. Team A is in scrimmage kick formation and punts. B50 is lined up inside the frame of the snapper and is within one yard of the line of scrimmage. The punt rolls out of bounds at the B-40.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, 4/1, A-29, snap (25).
The natural result of the down is B’s ball, 1/10, where the ball went OB. However, B50 commits an illegal position foul, which can only be enforced at the previous spot. Team A is given the choice to decline the penalty, and accept the natural result of the down, or accept the 5 yard penalty at the previous spot and repeat 4th down.


8. 4/10 @ A-5. Punter A27 is standing in his end zone when he punts. The short punt crosses the neutral zone and strikes B38 in the helmet at the A-20. The ball then rebounds back into Team A’s end zone, where A27 recovers it and carries it to the A-10.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, Free Kick after a safety, A-20, free kick timing (25).
A27’s recovery of the ball is legal, but, the status of the ball is still a scrimmage kick that has crossed the neutral zone, so the ball is dead in A’s end zone when recovered by A27. Even though the punted ball is touched by Team B beyond the neutral zone, the impetus on the ball when it became dead behind A’s goal line is from A’s kick, resulting in a safety, 2 points for Team B, followed by a Team A free kick from the A-20.


Offline Snapper

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2020, 08:36:25 AM »

2. 2/4 @A-30. Airborne eligible receiver A82 receives a legal forward pass at the A-35. As he receives the ball, A82 is contacted by B18 and first comes to the ground with the ball at the A-33, then steps out of bounds. When the ball becomes dead the game clock stops at 1:05 in the first quarter.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
A, 1/10, A-35, ready (40 and running).
When an airborne player firmly holds a previously loose ball, and is contacted by an opponent causing him to return the ground (inbounds) behind the spot where he first held the ball firmly, he is given progress to the spot where he first firmly held the ball, and the ball is dead at that point. In this case, the ball was dead in the field of play, so the clock would stop to award a first down to Team A, then re-start when the ball is ready for play for the next down.



2) This question can be interpreted two different ways.  I hate when they write a question that way.  Although to be fair, overall, these quiz questions have been really good this year.

One way is to interpret it is as the receiver's forward progress already being stopped when he steps out of bounds.  The second way is that his progress was not stopped, he ran after the catch, and then stepped oob.

Since the question doesn't say that his progress was stopped, I'm guessing that they want us to infer the second situation.  But again, I hate trying to look at tea leaves trying to figure out what they are saying.

Anyway if it's the second case, then:   A 3/1 A33 RFP 40.

---

I'll take a stab at the Replay questions.  But I'm still trying to learn Replay stuff, so nobody should take these as gospel.

9)  Replay can review and correct this to the runner being down at the A30.  So:   A 2/15 A20 RFP 25  -or-  A 3/5 A30 RFP 25.  B probably accepts the penalty.

10)  Replay can review and make the runner down at the B10.  So:  A 1/G B10.  Clock corrected to 0:59, RFP, 25 sec.  Because the correct ruling would have stopped the clock (first down), the replay 10 second runoff does NOT apply.





Online ElvisLives

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2020, 11:41:46 AM »
Q2
I need to amend my response a bit:
When a player secures a loose ball while airborne, and is contacted while airborne, and he first returns the ground inbounds and then goes OB, to the ground inbounds, or is immediately so held that his progress is stopped, and, in any of those cases, he has no further opportunity to advance, then he is given progress to the point that he secured the ball (5-1-3). I am certain this is the point of this question, i.e., he gets progress to the point where he secure the ball - not where the catch was completed, and not where he went OB or where the ball was otherwise declared dead.

I get Snapper's alternative ruling, but, very subjectively, I believe they mean that the receiver completed the catch and stepped OB in the same action, so there was no continuation of progress.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 03:11:57 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline Snapper

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2020, 02:45:33 PM »
I think we’re on the same page here.  Just a matter of which way to interpret what they wrote.

Offline bctgp

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2020, 10:34:40 PM »
On question 5, might be good to expand on why the period is extended even though penalty includes loss of down. I think that's correct for this scenario but I couldn't find rules or AR support for it.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 08:20:52 AM »
On question 5, might be good to expand on why the period is extended even though penalty includes loss of down. I think that's correct for this scenario but I couldn't find rules or AR support for it.

Yeah, good point. The period is extended because the foul was NOT by the team in possession, per 3-2-3-1.

I probably screwed this one up. I think an FBS crew messed this up a couple of seasons ago, too. Extended the period when they should not have, and the fouling team proceeded to score a game winning touchdown.

In this case, Team B gets 2 points, but the game is over, and Team A wins.
And get the heck off the field, ‘cause Team B and fans ain’t gonna like it.

« Last Edit: November 21, 2020, 12:42:05 PM by ElvisLives »

Offline Kalle

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 09:46:43 AM »
Yeah, good point. The period is extended because the foul was NOT by the team in possession, per 3-2-3-1.

Umm, isn't team A still in team possession of the ball even though it not in player possession?

Offline Kalle

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2020, 09:52:02 AM »
Have the relevant rules changed since 2015? Rom Gilbert was then of the opinion that the period is not extended. http://romgilbert.us/p-1516.htm

Online ElvisLives

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2020, 12:43:25 PM »
Kalle (and everybody) - see my edited comment above.

Online Rob S

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2020, 04:11:11 PM »

I'll take a stab at the Replay questions.  But I'm still trying to learn Replay stuff, so nobody should take these as gospel.

9)  Replay can review and correct this to the runner being down at the A30.  So:   A 2/15 A20 RFP 25  -or-  A 3/5 A30 RFP 25.  B probably accepts the penalty.

10)  Replay can review and make the runner down at the B10.  So:  A 1/G B10.  Clock corrected to 0:59, RFP, 25 sec.  Because the correct ruling would have stopped the clock (first down), the replay 10 second runoff does NOT apply.




9 - The holding (assuming it occurs after the knee was down ... I'm assuming so since it was 11 yards further downfield) would be not enforced as only PFs or UNSs after the ball is changed to dead are still enforced (page 26 of IR case book). So A 3/5 is the only option here.

10 - Agree

Online Rob S

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2020, 04:16:57 PM »

3. 4/10 @ B-45. During A91’s punt the untouched ball is at rest on the Team B three-yard line when B22 blocks A80 into the ball, forcing it into the end zone where it touches the ground.
RULING: ______________│______________│______________│______________
B, 1/10, B-20, snap (25).
The touching by A80 is forced touching and is ignored. When the ball touches the ground in the end zone, the ball is dead, and results in a touchback.



What you have is what I think they want (and correct if the ball is still slightly moving), but if the ball is truly at rest (and there's no indication of anyone trying to recover), isn't the ball just dead at the B3? Why give B the advantage of a touchback for blocking A into the ball?

Online ElvisLives

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2020, 05:01:00 PM »
What you have is what I think they want (and correct if the ball is still slightly moving), but if the ball is truly at rest (and there's no indication of anyone trying to recover), isn't the ball just dead at the B3? Why give B the advantage of a touchback for blocking A into the ball?

That is certainly a possibility, and one that I considered, but I think they are looking for the fact that the forced touching is ignored, and the ball touching the ground in the end zone results in an instantaneous touchback.
I honestly don’t see an unfair advantage, because I hardly think a B player can expect to block an opponent into a ball and have the ball travel into the end zone. If that happens, it is just a natural part of game play.
As for the ball being at rest, simply being still (at rest) does not justify ruling the ball to be dead. We have to look around and verify that no player is making an attempt to play the ball. In the given question, we really aren’t given enough info to know either way, so I am going with the ball still being alive when it is contacted by the A player that was blocked into the ball.

We shall see.

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Re: S/B Weekly Quiz 12
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2020, 11:31:01 AM »
As expected, Kalle got number 5 right. Yep, the LOD ends the period. It may sound like Team A gets an unfair advantage by illegally kicking the ball out of bounds behind behind his goal line, but the penalty is not time sensitive. The LOD would apply any time during the game. And, it would take a particularly savvy player to know that, if he kicks the ball OB, he'll give up two points and possession of the ball, but the period will end (and the game, in this case).
Good work, Kalle.