Nebraska/Illinois

[zebrastripes]

https://filmroom.dvsport360.com/viewer?id=006a1e81-c090-41e1-8d37-892ca20f1a9e&p=24

It seems pretty obvious to me that the knee was down before the “pass” was thrown, therefore there shouldn’t have been a foul for IFP. This was a momentum play and B should have been awarded the ball at the 2. Apparently replay disagrees with me as the stuck with a safety after review.

[ElvisLives]

Yeah, can't explain how replay missed the knee down. At worst, B gets the ball at the B-1/2 - the ball may have not been over the goal line when the knee landed. At best, they get momentum at the B-2.
Let's see if this shows up on Blandino's review.

[TXMike]

No way it is safety but if they didn’t see knee down can IR correct that ?   And don’t we want to try to go safety and never down inside the 1 in these situations ?

[NTXRef]

If you listen to the announcement after the replay, they state that the knee was ruled down with ball in EZ; therefore, safety.   So, yes, IR can rule a knee down, they just totally ignored the momentum rule.  Blown call by IR.

[HLinNC]

 I've never seen two officials go down in a game.  AO had to come in to U, (he was wearing R shirt), and then he went down in the 3rd.

[wv ref]

I don't believe IR can rule on momentum.  Bad positioning by S too.

[bctgp]

This was an unfortunate officiating error. Clearly should have been momentum.  I hope it is on Shaw's training video.  Ironically, a friend of mine reminded me that there was a major officiating gaffe in the Nebraska/Illinois game last year as well where a Nebraska forward pass was ruled backward and Illinois recovered the loose ball. They stated replay could not overturn it. 

[Covid 22]

I just watched the video and had not heard anything about this previously.

1) Shouldn't there have been a beanbag on the ground?
2) Shouldn't the BJ and/or S have had the beanbag in hand ready to mark the spot the kick ended?
3) Shouldn't the R have asked the BJ and/or S where their beanbag marked the catch?
4) Why did the R give the Loss of down signal?
5) How can a NCAA crew and IR not ask the question "Did the returner run the ball back into the endzone?"   It was clearly obvious in the replay that he slid into the endzone. 
6) Why did the S throw the flag to the spot the ball went OOB?
7) It looked like the S was going to the spot of the catch and came back when she saw the BJ throw his flag.

Not a good start for a season.

[wv ref]

There is a beanbag on the 1.  You can see in Cam 4. S should not bag EOK only B.

I just watched the video and had not heard anything about this previously.

1) Shouldn't there have been a beanbag on the ground?
2) Shouldn't the BJ and/or S have had the beanbag in hand ready to mark the spot the kick ended?
3) Shouldn't the R have asked the BJ and/or S where their beanbag marked the catch?
4) Why did the R give the Loss of down signal?
5) How can a NCAA crew and IR not ask the question "Did the returner run the ball back into the endzone?"   It was clearly obvious in the replay that he slid into the endzone. 
6) Why did the S throw the flag to the spot the ball went OOB?
7) It looked like the S was going to the spot of the catch and came back when she saw the BJ throw his flag.

Not a good start for a season.

[Covid 22]

Yes he did finally toss the beanbag to mark where his knee went down in the field of play.  If you watch it slowly, you can see the beanbag in his hand between his legs.   It doesn't go down until the knee touches.   This makes more sense for the IR ruling.   If he told the R that he marked the knee touching with the beanbag and they reviewed the location on the ball when the knee touched, the ball was behind the GL.   

But the beanbag should have marked the end of the kick (the catch) the the two or three.   Bad mechanics led to a bad conclusion.

[ElvisLives]

I just watched the video and had not heard anything about this previously.

1) Shouldn't there have been a beanbag on the ground? Yes, to mark the end of the kick.
2) Shouldn't the BJ and/or S have had the beanbag in hand ready to mark the spot the kick ended?
Not in my humble, and experienced opinion. The practice of holding the spot marker in hand during punt plays goes back to the first years that we had spot markers (around '78, I think). We had not had to be concerned about the end of the kick (or the ends of the run) before then. To keep from forgetting and getting 'downgraded,' college deep guys decided to go ahead and hold the marker in their hands. Here we are some 33 years later, and that practice is still being employed. What? You're not used to having a spot marker by now? How is a spot marker any different than a foul marker, in that respect, and in this day?
For several decades now, I have been telling folks to know where your tools are, and use the appropriate tool at the appropriate time.
What's the problem with holding it in your hand, you ask? Even with guys in Power 5 conferences that hold it in their hands on punts, I can't tell you how many times there has been a KCI foul and the first thing that the B does is throw his bean bag. Then he realizes he's thrown the wrong thing, and starts trying to find his flag, distracting him from continuing to officiate. By the time he gets the flag out and down, the ball has been touched by who-knows-who, and who-knows-where.
That is a technique whose time came and went by 1982, and should be retired, once and for all.
3) Shouldn't the R have asked the BJ and/or S where their beanbag marked the catch? Just depends on what they were discussing. If they were discussing the apparent illegal forward pass, then the spot of the catch is unimportant. The foul was in the end zone, so the result of the penalty would be a safety. The end of the kick doesn't come into play, in that discussion.
4) Why did the R give the Loss of down signal? Nobody's perfect. That was a brain fart on the signal. His brain said safety, but his body said "loss of down."
5) How can a NCAA crew and IR not ask the question "Did the returner run the ball back into the endzone?"   It was clearly obvious in the replay that he slid into the endzone. Perhaps they did, but just didn't recognize the momentum element of the action. 
6) Why did the S throw the flag to the spot the ball went OOB? Inexperience. I doubt she's been working football more than 10 seasons, but I don't know that.
7) It looked like the S was going to the spot of the catch and came back when she saw the BJ throw his flag.I actually think she was going to the spot where the ball went OB, but then saw the B throwing on the illegal pass, and she realized what had happened.

Not a good start for a season.

[clearwall]

6) Why did the S throw the flag to the spot the ball went OOB? Inexperience. I doubt she's been working football more than 10 seasons, but I don't know that.

I don't know her entire career length, but I've known her since I moved to DFW in 2012 and she's been working since then. She's actually quite good, she's not one of those women that has a job BECAUSE she's a woman. She knows her stuff and is a very good official. I think she just had a brain fart. Many of us do, especially early in the season

[TXMike]

Play made the CFO video this week.  SS says momentum exception.  Ball dead at the 2

[Joe Stack]

This was my crew's pregame play discussion this week. We discussed the momentum rule but talked more about mechanics. Not that they are more important than the rule but in this case, there was a universal breakdown.

The one thing on this play that I'm going to give the BJ/SJ a break on is the knee. Real time, they may not have believed (or been sure) the knee was down and continued officiating -- which was the correct thing to do. However, once the ball was thrown, the flags should have been thrown (I believe) into the end zone.

Since it was a forward pass that was incomplete, do you believe an incomplete pass signal should have been given? There is a split among us that think that. Some say no, a stop the clock suffices. Others say, yes, because if players think its a fumble, they'll go after it and heads may knock together. I'm leaning toward yes, but I'll concede the players are going after the ball anyway (here, I think it went out of bounds, but for general mechanics purposes).

[ElvisLives]

This was my crew's pregame play discussion this week. We discussed the momentum rule but talked more about mechanics. Not that they are more important than the rule but in this case, there was a universal breakdown.

The one thing on this play that I'm going to give the BJ/SJ a break on is the knee. Real time, they may not have believed (or been sure) the knee was down and continued officiating -- which was the correct thing to do. However, once the ball was thrown, the flags should have been thrown (I believe) into the end zone.

Since it was a forward pass that was incomplete, do you believe an incomplete pass signal should have been given? There is a split among us that think that. Some say no, a stop the clock suffices. Others say, yes, because if players think its a fumble, they'll go after it and heads may knock together. I'm leaning toward yes, but I'll concede the players are going after the ball anyway (here, I think it went out of bounds, but for general mechanics purposes).

Yeah, on the field, I don’t know that anybody on the planet would have seen the knee down. Replay saw it, but Replay can’t get involved with momentum. But, the crew can take the information that the knee was down with (arguably) the ball in the end zone, and arrive at a momentum conclusion. Don’t know why that didn’t happen.

Regarding the pass, was it a forward pass? Yes. What is complete? No. What is the signal for an incomplete forward pass? S10. Then report the incomplete illegal forward pass to the R, and impose the appropriate penalty.