You make the call

[CalhounLJ]

This happened to us Friday:
A ball 4th and 2. They tried to get B to encroach but ended up false starting. We “blowed it and throwed it”, Marked off 5 and  I blew it ready for play. A offense is still on the field waiting to see what coach wants to do. Finally he decides to punt, and so offense goes off, punt team comes on. The long snapper is in the exchange, and happens to bring “the kicking ball” with him. They line up in formation, and all of a sudden he holds the ball up in the air asking us to change it out. Play clock is ticking, umpire is in his position and I’m back there wondering what in the world I should do.
What would y’all have done?


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[Logical]

Do not reset play clock. Remain in position, instruct THEM to get the so-called "kicking ball" off the field (especially if wasn't approved by U pre-game; if you're so inclined, wing can assist with ball removal) and snap the ball that was already on the field; if PC expires, DOG.

[CalhounLJ]

What if he just pitches the one he’s holding to the side and snaps the one we spotted?


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[Logical]

As long as the extra ball clears the field and then snap is prior to play clock expire.
I guess my point was it's not our responsibility to correct their error. When you said "asking us to change it out" sounded like they expected the officials to repair the leaking tire.

[CalhounLJ]

What if it doesn’t make it to the sideline? What if he just pitches it a couple yards out of the way? My point is I don’t think we can take a wait and see passive approach. If we have two balls on the field after the ready I think we have to intervene.


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[CalhounLJ]

When you said "asking us to change it out" sounded like they expected the officials to repair the leaking tire.

The snapper ran to his spot in the formation, lined up over the ball that had already been spotted, and then raised the ball he brought onto the field up in the air and motioned to the umpire in a way that suggested he wanted to change the balls. That’s the first time we noticed the ball he brought with him. We don’t normally check subs fir footballs when they come in. I guess we will have to start. 


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[HLinNC]

If you catch him at the sideline, tell him to chuck it out right then.  Where he was with you, you need to kill it.  If I'm the WH at the next break I'm telling him the crew will rotate the balls in and no player should be bringing one out.

[CalhounLJ]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.


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[GA Umpire]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.


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[Snapper]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.


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Sounds reasonable.  It's unlikely that they could delay in getting a punt team in, then get that extra ball out (without confusing everyone), get set, and do all of that in 25 seconds.

And I do think that they can't just pitch it out and hurry up and snap right away.  That might confuse the defense if they pitch it and snap almost immediately after that.

[fudilligas]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.


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Probably would have done the same thing….however, being facetious, it would have been the perfect time to tell the snapper that since a punt is a kick he had the correct ball after all

[Ralph Damren]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.


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100% in agreement, Calhoun, and I would remind A/K that a new ball can only be brought in during a new series (1-3-2). Two balls on the field at the same time probably won't have a happy ending. Remind me to tell you folks about the confusion in Tennessee I once heard of  .

This story came from the Tennessee NFHS Rep. several years ago....

Scene : State championship game, tie score ,second half WHEN :

(1) A1 running sweep near A's sideline;
(2) B1 tackles A1 and ball pops loose;
(3) both A1 & B1 slide OOB AND INTO;
(4) an A coach and his team's little ball boy;
(5) ball boy goes flying in one direction, the ball he was holding goes flying in the OTHEER;
(6)  OUT ONTO THE FIELD  ;
(7) A2 picks up one ball and heads for TD  ;
(8) B2 picks up the other ball and does likewise    ;
(9) TV shows, in a panoramic view, 1/3 of players in one end zone with 2 officials signaling  ;
(10) 1/3 of players in opposite end zone with 2 officials signaling  ;
(11) the remaining players and officials at midfield thinking  what the @#$% just happened  .

  conferenced for 10 minutes and decided to treat the play as an inadvertent whistle, giving the ball to A at the spot of the fumble AND penalize A for delay of game  as the little ball boy wasn't where he should have been AND certainly caused the game to be delayed.

One of the reps had his wife with him, and she asked a very motherly question : "Did the little ball boy get hurt?" The answer was : "Not physically ,not physically."

The video showed the "real" ball was scooped up by A. A did win the game. 

Thank you for 1-1-6 , how would you handle  ?

[Logical]

I blew it and threw a delay of game.

Nothing wrong with that. My focus was on not resetting the play clock and thereby giving an unfair timing advantage.

So, what ball was used after all of this :-)

Remind me to tell you folks about the confusion in Tennessee I once heard of  .

Please share

[CalhounLJ]

Nothing wrong with that. My focus was on not resetting the play clock and thereby giving an unfair timing advantage.

So, what ball was used after all of this :-)

Please share

We let him swap it figured it was worth 5yds.


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[Logical]

We let him swap it figured it was worth 5yds.

Agree.
As long as ball is adequate game ball. I was spotting a ball after punt once that was so slick it was like it had vaseline on it; I wasn't sure how R was able to catch it. When I exchanged balls I informed the wing that side to remove ball from game.

[CalhounLJ]

yep. for some reason around here they like to punt with an older ball. I don't have a problem with it as long as it's legal. We don't stop the game for it though, and if we've already put one down, we are gonna play with it. unless of course, they bring one with them and ask politely if they can trade balls for 5yds...
 

[Logical]

unless of course, they bring one with them and ask politely if they can trade balls for 5yds...

 

I'm firm with punting the same ball that they were using for their scrimmage plays. Other than to obtain some kind of advantage, there is no reason to change. By rule, ball change should only be permitted on new series or free kick (1-3-2; exception for weather conditions).

[CalhounLJ]

Yes I’m aware of the rule. I’ve often wondered why we nit one rule and pick others. For example, even though the rule says the only time we are to switch out balls is a new series or weather related, most of us have no problem running a new one in on a long pass out of bounds.  We also will swap out in a side zone. The question in my mind is what is the difference between that and a punt? Assuming in both situations that all balls are legal?


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[bama_stripes]

 
By rule, ball change should only be permitted on new series or free kick (1-3-2; exception for weather conditions).

Since we in the Deep South insist on playing football during baseball weather (and vice versa), we allow teams to swap every play if they choose to.

[ncwingman]

If we want to nitpick rules...

1-3-2 doesn't say that you *can't* change the ball every play. There is the implication in 1-3-3 that the referee can order it changed, so any time the ball boy brings a new ball out, he's simply granting the request and since he probably lacks a degree in meteorology, also has a loose definition of "weather".

Also, when was the last time you saw a white hat approve the balls before the game instead of the U or BJ?

In practice, I'm okay with a ball boy running in a new ball between any play, but once it's ready for play, that's the ball we're using. If he brings out the "kicking ball" on second down, or the "throwing ball" (is that a thing?) on a punt, well, that ball is down and it's what we're using. If you take 20 seconds to decide to punt and the ball is clearly ready for play already, you don't get to change balls like they do in the NFL. Functionally, any approved ball is approved for any play.

Finally, QB throws an incomplete pass 40 yards down field and out of bounds - new ball in, ball boy gets to shag balls. I'm not going to waste 25 seconds running down the ball, crawling under the bleachers and relaying it back to the U... at least in a varsity game. Sometimes you don't have a choice in a JV game... I still have a scrape on my arm from two weeks ago...

[CalhounLJ]

If we want to nitpick rules...

1-3-2 doesn't say that you *can't* change the ball every play. There is the implication in 1-3-3 that the referee can order it changed, so any time the ball boy brings a new ball out, he's simply granting the request and since he probably lacks a degree in meteorology, also has a loose definition of "weather".

Also, when was the last time you saw a white hat approve the balls before the game instead of the U or BJ?

In practice, I'm okay with a ball boy running in a new ball between any play, but once it's ready for play, that's the ball we're using. If he brings out the "kicking ball" on second down, or the "throwing ball" (is that a thing?) on a punt, well, that ball is down and it's what we're using. If you take 20 seconds to decide to punt and the ball is clearly ready for play already, you don't get to change balls like they do in the NFL. Functionally, any approved ball is approved for any play.

Finally, QB throws an incomplete pass 40 yards down field and out of bounds - new ball in, ball boy gets to shag balls. I'm not going to waste 25 seconds running down the ball, crawling under the bleachers and relaying it back to the U... at least in a varsity game. Sometimes you don't have a choice in a JV game... I still have a scrape on my arm from two weeks ago...

Lol I would love to hear that story


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[Logical]

I was referring only to the 4th down "kicking ball" request, not balls that have left the vicinity of the next snap. Balls are swapped continually during a series but when I have a 3rd down play end between the hashes we spot and snap that ball.
Most games have 2/3 pre-game approved balls that should be interchangeable.
So the question in my mind is why they want to use a different ball for this one situation?
That team provided the balls before the game so should'nt matter to them and we don't have to worry about them slipping in a non-approved ball (the "kicking ball"; regardless of how quick it may be to check).
I've kicked and fielded many balls and, when properly inflated, have never noticed a difference in any ball when kicking but have definitely noticed difference when handling (catch/run/pass).

Sending in that slick ball to punt was commonplace in the day and some residual left today. Just trying to avoid it, that's all.

[GA Umpire]

Since we in the Deep South insist on playing football during baseball weather (and vice versa), we allow teams to swap every play if they choose to.

 
As long as it does not delay the ready.

[CalhounLJ]

I was referring only to the 4th down "kicking ball" request, not balls that have left the vicinity of the next snap. Balls are swapped continually during a series but when I have a 3rd down play end between the hashes we spot and snap that ball.
Most games have 2/3 pre-game approved balls that should be interchangeable.
So the question in my mind is why they want to use a different ball for this one situation?
That team provided the balls before the game so should'nt matter to them and we don't have to worry about them slipping in a non-approved ball (the "kicking ball"; regardless of how quick it may be to check).
I've kicked and fielded many balls and, when properly inflated, have never noticed a difference in any ball when kicking but have definitely noticed difference when handling (catch/run/pass).

Sending in that slick ball to punt was commonplace in the day and some residual left today. Just trying to avoid it, that's all.

An older ball is softer. A softer ball kicks farther. A newer ball doesn’t hold moisture as much as a softer ball, so it’s best for running/passing. As long as it has been checked by my U and deemed playable we don’t have a problem swapping it.

[ncwingman]

Lol I would love to hear that story


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Not much else to say about it. I've worked some back judge in JV games, and SOP is to go find game balls and talk to ball boys before the game, but on JV night that means finding an assistant coach who then gets a dumb look on his face as they don't know anything about either of those things.

End result, no ball boy, and then they throw a deep OOB pass to the other team's sideline. The time required to get a coach to throw in a new ball or just run down the other one was probably about equal -- in fact, running it down was probably going to be faster. It doesn't go really far under the bleachers, but enough that I had to crouch and reach a bit -- and there's some sharp metal corners under there. I got the ball back and the U placed it with the play clock at 27.

Fortunately (?) the JV team didn't have a good place kicker, so they always went for 2 after scores and I didn't have to go shag any kicks.