Illegal Participation Foul?

[Mad Mike]

A has the ball at their own 30 yd. line. A elects to a long pass to a receiver running a route along the sideline. Defensive Back has good coverage. On film, it does not appear the defender caused the receiver to go out of bounds at the B25 yard line, but the receiver does go out of bounds for three or four steps as the ball is in the air. The receiver comes back in bounds, gets his hands on the pass but drops the ball for an incomplete pass at the B20 yardline. Should this be flagged for Illegal Participation and if so, since it was incomplete, would the enforcement spot would be the previous spot?

Same scenario, but now the ball is caught. Do we have the same enforcement spot as above because the receiver was/is considered out of bounds, i.e. we don't have a completed pass? Or do we enforce it from the spot he went out of bounds?

[Derek Teigen]

this would be illegal participation and it is a 15 yard penalty from the basic spot, which is the previous spot because it was a loose ball play.

[AlUpstateNY]

this would be illegal participation and it is a 15 yard penalty from the basic spot, which is the previous spot because it was a loose ball play.

There is NO FOUL for going OOB, IP happens when an OOB player comes back in bounds and participates in the play.  As this is clearly a loose ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot.

[dammitbobby]

So dropping a pass - literally touching the ball - isn’t participating in a play?

[Ralph Damren]

So dropping a pass - literally touching the ball - isn’t participating in a play?

Re-entering the playing field is considered participating in a play even if the pass isn't thrown to him. He may have drawn coverage from a defender. Remember, intent is not an issue with A/K while it is with B/R. Consider B missing a tackle, sliding, and contacting the sideline. He is able to continue pursuit. Some test questions that I recall...

It is a foul for an A player to go intentionally go out of bounds. (T/F)

An eligible A player that steps out of bounds and returns is now ineligible. (T/F)

[bama_stripes]

Some test questions that I recall...

It is a foul for an A player to go intentionally go out of bounds. (T/F)
Only if he then participates.
An eligible A player that steps out of bounds and returns is now ineligible. (T/F)
Once eligible, always eligible.

[ilyazhito]

This is a BIG difference between NFHS and NCAA rules. Under college rules, if A goes out of bounds, he is no longer an eligible receiver. The foul that he would commit on returning and touching the ball would also be illegal touching, not illegal particiaption, as that does not exist under NCAA rules.

[Ralph Damren]

You nailed it, 'Bama, going OOB is never a foul, it's when you come back inbounds that you've got trouble . Consider a runner intentionally running OOB to stop the clock late in a half.

[CalhounLJ]

This is a BIG difference between NFHS and NCAA rules. Under college rules, if A goes out of bounds, he is no longer an eligible receiver. The foul that he would commit on returning and touching the ball would also be illegal touching, not illegal particiaption, as that does not exist under NCAA rules.

Thanks for the input, but don't get us confused.

[Ia-Ref]

The penaty does not fit the crime for the play described and should be changed.
IP should be for deception and extra players not an accidental step on the sideline.
15 yards from the previous spot is rediculously harsh.
I am not saying that such a play should not be a foul, just not 15 yards.
Go with a 5 yarder and I would not have ignored it as I have.  Yes I have ignored it.
For those of you who I upset by ignoring it, get over it or else call every hold or reach outside a blockers frame you see.
An accidental step out IMHO is not a serious foul!

[CalhounLJ]

The penaty does not fit the crime for the play described and should be changed.
IP should be for deception and extra players not an accidental step on the sideline.
15 yards from the previous spot is rediculously harsh.
I am not saying that such a play should not be a foul, just not 15 yards.
Go with a 5 yarder and I would not have ignored it as I have.  Yes I have ignored it.
For those of you who I upset by ignoring it, get over it or else call every hold or reach outside a blockers frame you see.
An accidental step out IMHO is not a serious foul!

This is true on so many levels I have to retweet it. This may be the most egregious penalty in HS football.

[AlUpstateNY]

This is true on so many levels I have to retweet it. This may be the most egregious penalty in HS football.

Really? The difference between NFHS: 9-6-1 and 2, is that A or K is responsible for the direction of the play, whereas B or R is responding to where A or K has directed play and subject to additional consequence for violating the restriction.  It is, by no means, a currently "frequent" question.

[CalhounLJ]

Really? The difference between NFHS: 9-6-1 and 2, is that A or K is responsible for the direction of the play, whereas B or R is responding to where A or K has directed play and subject to additional consequence for violating the restriction.  It is, by no means, a currently "frequent" question.

Really.

[AlUpstateNY]

Really.

Rereading the original posting, the receiver stepped OOB (on his own), stayed there for several steps, came back in-bounds and clearly participated in the play (attempted to catch and touched the pass in bounds).  His actions seem a clear violation of both 9-6-4-2 &/or 3., during a loose ball, which should be penalized from the previous spot.

Regarding 9-6-4-2, should a player of A or K step OOB (on his own) & gain an unfair advantage, the foul and consequence would be the same.  Should there be no advantage gained, or pursued, by that behavior judgment may dictate whether the behavior merits the stated consequence, or perhaps a word of caution about returning inbounds would be appropriate and constructive.  Sometimes "One size interpretations doesn't fit every conceivable application".

[zebrastripes]

https://youtu.be/0qvQQfoyjkw

This is an example of an egregious IP foul that unfortunately wasn’t flagged.

[CalhounLJ]

Rereading the original posting, the receiver stepped OOB (on his own), stayed there for several steps, came back in-bounds and clearly participated in the play (attempted to catch and touched the pass in bounds).  His actions seem a clear violation of both 9-6-4-2 &/or 3., during a loose ball, which should be penalized from the previous spot.

Regarding 9-6-4-2, should a player of A or K step OOB (on his own) & gain an unfair advantage, the foul and consequence would be the same.  Should there be no advantage gained, or pursued, by that behavior judgment may dictate whether the behavior merits the stated consequence, or perhaps a word of caution about returning inbounds would be appropriate and constructive.  Sometimes "One size interpretations doesn't fit every conceivable application".

Agee. 15yds from the previous spot is much too severe for an accidental step oob on a route. Especially the part about no advantage being gained. It is particularly egregious (bad, flagrant, over the top) to penalize A 15yds for an accidental step on the line during a pass play.

[CalhounLJ]

https://youtu.be/0qvQQfoyjkw

This is an example of an egregious IP foul that unfortunately wasn’t flagged.

I didn’t see the part when he stepped oob. I saw a missed call on a TD. Got another angle?

Fwiw, assuming that receiver did step oob on that play, I’m all for flagging him for IP. It’s the 15yd penalty from previous spot that is over the top. 5 from previous is much more suitable and achieves the same purpose.

[CalhounLJ]

There is NO FOUL for going OOB, IP happens when an OOB player comes back in bounds and participates in the play.  As this is clearly a loose ball play, the basic spot is the previous spot.

The "and participates in the play" part is incorrect. In NFHS, the foul occurs when the player returns inbounds. The spot where he returned is the spot of the foul. All but one principle applies. If the return was before the pass was completed, it's previous spot enforcement. If the return was after the completion by another player, the spot of enforcement is the end of the run, unless the spot of the return is behind the end of the run. Then the spot of the return would be the spot of enforcement. In the original post, the spot of enforcement is the previous spot in both cases.

[AlUpstateNY]

The "and participates in the play" part is incorrect. In NFHS, the foul occurs when the player returns inbounds. The spot where he returned is the spot of the foul. All but one principle applies. If the return was before the pass was completed, it's previous spot enforcement. If the return was after the completion by another player, the spot of enforcement is the end of the run, unless the spot of the return is behind the end of the run. Then the spot of the return would be the spot of enforcement. In the original post, the spot of enforcement is the previous spot in both cases.

As written 9-6-4-1 specifies tighter requirements for players of A or K.  However each play is unique and as the NFHS Game Officials Manual (2020-2021) advises, "Game Officials must have a football sense which supersedes the technical application of the rules so that the game goes smoothly.  Game Officials are expected to exercise good judgment in applying the rules."

"Advantage/Disadvantage" is a basic, and standard, guide for assisting in determining compliance, or non compliance between the written rule and the specific, and unique, action being observed and is helpful in rendering an appropriate and sound judgment being made.

[CalhounLJ]

Did you mean 9-6-1? Because that's the rule applicable on this play.