Stiff Arm to facemask

[Derek Teigen]

did a jv game this week had a ball carrier stiff arm to the B's facemask to keep separation.  would you say anything to the runner like keep your hands away from b's facemask or is this something you would flag as a potential safety issue?  Or is this just good football? 

[Badger1]

Perfectly legal as long as the ball carrier doesn't deliver a blow with his hand when using the stiff arm and doesn't pull or twist the defender's facemask. 

[NVFOA_Ump]

Perfectly legal as long as the ball carrier doesn't deliver a blow with his hand when using the stiff arm and doesn't pull or twist the defender's facemask.

I would agree but would prefer slightly different wording:   Perfectly legal as long as the ball carrier doesn't deliver a blow with his open hand when using the stiff arm and doesn't grasp the defender's facemask.

[HLinNC]

If he performed it legally, compliment him on the clean play.
If he didn't, flag it.

Why admonish a player if he did no wrong?

[Derek Teigen]

I agree but it looks like the ball carrier is afforded more leeway with his hands in warding off tackles than a blocker is in warding off defenders.  I just think it might be inconsistent that an offensive lineman could be flagged for hands to the face of a defender and the ball carrier not.

one reply stated that fist open or closed was a determining factor and I would argue that in most stiff arms they would use an open fist.  In my example it almost seemed like the runner was looking for the opportunity to stiff arm but I also think the defenders should have gone low rather than try to tackle high and ride the runner down. 

Still I think a stiff arm to the head seemed tough.  I was thinking of flagging it for illegal use of hands but wasn't sure and I wanted to get everybody's feedback so that as I develop my game I will know where to draw any lines.

[AlUpstateNY]

I agree but it looks like the ball carrier is afforded more leeway with his hands in warding off tackles than a blocker is in warding off defenders.  I just think it might be inconsistent that an offensive lineman could be flagged for hands to the face of a defender and the ball carrier not.

Still I think a stiff arm to the head seemed tough.  I was thinking of flagging it for illegal use of hands but wasn't sure and I wanted to get everybody's feedback so that as I develop my game I will know where to draw any lines.

A close read of NFHS: 2-3 specifically prohibits, "The blocker may "not initiate contact" with his arm or hand against an opponent "above the opponents shoulder".

Conversely, NFHS: 2-4-a specifically allows. "an offensive player may also use his hands or arms:(a) "When he is a runner, to ward off or push any player"_

[Logical]

Also, 9-2-1, Illegal Use of Hands/Holding, specifically excepts the runner.
So, as long as arm is straight with no punching blow, it is legal unless he grasps the face mask; could be 5 or 15 yard variety.

[bama_stripes]

[quote author=Derek Teig
Still I think a stiff arm to the head seemed tough.  I was thinking of flagging it for illegal use of hands but wasn't sure and I wanted to get everybody's feedback so that as I develop my game I will know where to draw any lines.
[/quote]

See Badger1’s reply above.

[CalhounLJ]

Perfectly legal as long as the ball carrier doesn't deliver a blow with his hand when using the stiff arm and doesn't pull or twist the defender's facemask.

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[blandis]

Remember, the rules don't include our feelings. This is still a rough game and needs to be respected as such.

[Derek Teigen]

all good responses and helpful. thank you.   by the way this past Friday  I did have a stiff arm to the facemask in my game on  a sweep to my side.  I saw the defenders head dip for an instant but I couldn't say for sure if it was because his face mask was being tugged on or if it was just the force of the stiff arm.   I can't call what I don't see so I passed on it.   Film was inconclusive as the play was going away from then camera's lens and nobody said anything.

[AlUpstateNY]

.   I can't call what I don't see so I passed on it.   

Perfect.