Enforcement spot

[JerseyLJ]

A question that came up during a meeting tonight....what is the enforcement spot for a foul by B that occurs during a backward pass behind the LOS?  The intent of the question was to trick someone into RTP, which it clearly isn’t, but what is the correct spot?   

1.  Previous spot
2.  Spot where ball was released
3.  Spot where run ended after completed backward pass

Never really got a concrete answer.  I can honestly make a case for any of the 3, but I keep coming back to its a foul that occurs during a loose ball play, therefore previous spot enforcement.   Although it seems kind of counter intuitive. Any thoughts?

Btw...longtime reader here, first time poster.   Also first year WH after 9 year LJ.   Have always enjoyed the insight gained from the joint experiences here. 

[CalhounLJ]

All fouls are enforced from the basic spot except one. A foul by the team in possession behind the basic spot. Since the but one doesn’t apply, this foul is enforced from the basic spot. The basic spot for a foul which occurs during a loose ball play is the previous spot. Since this ball is loose behind the line of scrimmage, it’s part of a loose ball play. Enforce from previous spot.


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[Ralph Damren]

Welcome, JerseyLJ, to our forum. I hope you've found it enjoyable over the years and hope you become an active poster. Congrats on donning the white hat...you may wish to change your handle to 'JerseyWH'  . As usual, Calhoun nailed your question. In your post you stated the foul occurred during the backward pass. IF it had occurred AFTER the backward pass had been completed it would be considered a running play (2-33-2) with the basic spot the end of the run.

This is merely one of the 4 W's that the flagging official should report to you before you send Mr. Umpire on his journey.You'll find that penalty enforcement will become your biggest challenge, not is it a 5,10, or 15; but where it is to be enforced from. Take your time - I've screwed up some over the years and it was always because I got caught up it the excitement of the game and hurried .
Don't be afraid to discuss with your crewmates as 5 heads are always better than one. Hopefully you have a veteran umpire who has been stepping off penalties for years and will stop a potential error. Lastly, stop and face the press box before giving the proper signals. If you give signals while walking, it may appear to some that you are doing a dance from a bygone era !

Good luck and keep us informed of your season.

[Curious]

Is a backward pass a foul?  I don't think so...

Reddings: "It is LEAGAL FOR ANY PLAYER ON EITHER TEAM TO THROW A B'WARD PASS ANY TIME ON THE FIELD.  If a player deliberately throws a backward pass out of bounds to conserve time, it is LEGAL, and the clock will start on the snap". 

Further, "If a backward pass touches the ground it falls under the "other loose balls" category (9-7-2) ...and is treated the same as a fumble" (my slight editorial shortening)

[bama_stripes]

Is a backward pass a foul?  I don't think so...

Reddings: "It is LEAGAL FOR ANY PLAYER ON EITHER TEAM TO THROW A B'WARD PASS ANY TIME ON THE FIELD.  If a player deliberately throws a backward pass out of bounds to conserve time, it is LEGAL, and the clock will start on the snap". 

Further, "If a backward pass touches the ground it falls under the "other loose balls" category (9-7-2) ...and is treated the same as a fumble" (my slight editorial shortening)

The OP stated that a foul occurred during a backward pass, not that the backward pass was a foul.

[CalhounLJ]

Is a backward pass a foul?  I don't think so...

Reddings: "It is LEAGAL FOR ANY PLAYER ON EITHER TEAM TO THROW A B'WARD PASS ANY TIME ON THE FIELD.  If a player deliberately throws a backward pass out of bounds to conserve time, it is LEGAL, and the clock will start on the snap". 

Further, "If a backward pass touches the ground it falls under the "other loose balls" category (9-7-2) ...and is treated the same as a fumble" (my slight editorial shortening)

I believe the post read “foul DURING a backward pass.”


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[Curious]

My bad...

However, there is a foul on the play; so there are two scenarios which could occur - with different enforcement spots - depending on whether the backward pass hit the ground
1. If the backward pass hit the ground (a/k/a fumble) it would almost have to be from behind the previous spot (snap), so wouldn't the enforcement be from the spot where possession was lost rather than the "basic spot"?

2. If the ball never hit the ground, I would agree that the previous spot would apply.

[Ralph Damren]

My bad...

However, there is a foul on the play; so there are two scenarios which could occur - with different enforcement spots - depending on whether the backward pass hit the ground
1. If the backward pass hit the ground (a/k/a fumble) it would almost have to be from behind the previous spot (snap), so wouldn't the enforcement be from the spot where possession was lost rather than the "basic spot"?

2. If the ball never hit the ground, I would agree that the previous spot would apply.

In the OP the foul was by B, by rule, a fumble behind the LOS is still a loose ball foul (2-33-1c) = previous spot enforcement.

[CalhounLJ]

My bad...

However, there is a foul on the play; so there are two scenarios which could occur - with different enforcement spots - depending on whether the backward pass hit the ground
1. If the backward pass hit the ground (a/k/a fumble) it would almost have to be from behind the previous spot (snap), so wouldn't the enforcement be from the spot where possession was lost rather than the "basic spot"?

2. If the ball never hit the ground, I would agree that the previous spot would apply.

Whether it hit the ground or not is irrelevant. The ball is loose behind the line either way.


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[juxone]

Seeing if I enforced correctly
B intercepts A's pass in the Bs end zone, where B starts to run but is pulled to the ground by his face mask. 

1. B the ball is dead
2. B is awarded a touchback
3. B' ball at the 20 and the penalty would be assessed from the 20, not the goal line?   

[CalhounLJ]

Yes. Basic spot is 20 when the result of the play is a touchback.


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