Down Box

[ElvisLives]

Anybody have a photo of the true "box" type of down box (from whence came the name)?  I recall in my college intramural days (around 1971), the "box" was truly a wooden box, with four faces, on top of a pole, and with a number on each face. The box man just rotated the pole to show the correct down toward the field.
For the life of me, I can't find a photo of such a creature. Understand that intramurals were not a well-funded operation, and had to use hand-me down stuff from athletics or local public schools. So, yeah, this was stuff probably from the 50s/60s.
Any of you "young-at-hearts" have a photo of such a thing?

[Kalle]

Here you are https://www.georgeglazer.com/wpmain/product/sports-football-downs-indicator-vintage-mid-20th-century/

[ElvisLives]

Here you are https://www.georgeglazer.com/wpmain/product/sports-football-downs-indicator-vintage-mid-20th-century/

WOW! Thank you! That's even older than the ones I was remembering, but it proves where the term "down box" came from.
You da man!

[HLinNC]

At the Pro FB HoF-

[clearwall]

This is amazing and I never even knew this was the origin of the term. I always thought it was because the "box" was a square and was roughly in the shape of a box. As in, you're flipping the numbers inside the box.

[Official_21]

It's amazing to see the evolution of down boxes through the years..the first one as mentioned above, then the flip ones, shown below


And last but certainly not least, the electronic down box


(Please post info in this thread if there are any that I am missing, I am in no way shape or form a football historian)

So, the way the older down box worked (based on what I see in the photo), is you would push it in the ground & then just turn the box to the down needed?

[ElvisLives]

So, the way the older down box worked (based on what I see in the photo), is you would push it in the ground & then just turn the box to the down needed?

I know it is rather difficult to fathom such high tech devices, but, yep, that's the way it worked. And now we have the electronic boxes that show the down, and some that show down AND distance. Rather like wireless game/play clocks, they seem to fail a lot. The flip-over box or the lever-action boxes are reliable and work just fine. The electronic boxes are a solution in search of a problem.

[bama_stripes]

The electronic boxes are a solution in search of a problem.

Maybe so, but they’re much easier to see on a field with poor lighting — especially from the press box.

[HLinNC]

The flip-over box or the lever-action boxes are reliable and work just fine.

They do have some minor flaws though.  The flip-overs tend to stick if they get wet and I've noticed the numbers fade over time. 

The lever-actions tend to have catastrophic failure when they do.  I recall a game not so many years ago where 3rd down failed in the 4th quarter.  No one was willing to go hunt the spare so I'd just hold up 3 fingers until the snap.

I took apart the one at my alma mater when it failed to see if I could rig a fix.  Every piece in there was made of plastic.  We trashed it.

Of the two, I prefer the flip model.

I honestly find the LED ones a bit difficult to read sometimes.  It doesn't matter usually as my back is to it most of the time anyway but if I am at R ,and it is a hazy or foggy evening, the numerals seem to blur a bit to me.

[Official_21]

I wonder how heavy the older down box was?

Unless the down indicator box was made out of some kind of light weight wood, I would imagine it would be a pretty heavy piece of kit to lug around.

[bama_stripes]

The one pictured above is obviously made out of fairly substantial wood.  The ones I have seen in person were made from sheet metal and not particularly heavy.

[HLinNC]

Interesting read here
https://fieldsoffriendlystrife.com/2021/05/21/the-evolution-of-footballs-chains-and-down-boxes/

[bama_stripes]

Nice find!

[ElvisLives]

The flip-overs tend to stick if they get wet ...

Such an easy design fix. Just press a little (1/2" diameter) hemispherical dimple into the corners of each plate to provide separation between the plates and prevent surface adhesion due to the water. And use stainless steel rings with stainless steel grommets in the holes in the plates. The plates (and the post) can be powder coated galvanized steel. Voila. A down box that, unless damaged, will last 100 years or more.
Foolproof.
And you'll only pay for it once, as opposed to buying batteries forever.
Yep, old school here. No need to fix something that isn't broken.

[dammitbobby]

I think today's down boxes are made with super thin aluminum poles, so that they bend/give very easily if they get run into, and don't injure the player.  I was working chains at a college game this year and had them come my way, I couldn't get back far enough because of a wall of players behind me, and that pole wound up with a 45 degree bend in it. 

[ElvisLives]

I think today's down boxes are made with super thin aluminum poles, so that they bend/give very easily if they get run into, and don't injure the player.  I was working chains at a college game this year and had them come my way, I couldn't get back far enough because of a wall of players behind me, and that pole wound up with a 45 degree bend in it. 

Hmmm. Your H didn't advise you to lay them down and get the heck out of the way if they are headin' your way? Safer for everybody.

[dammitbobby]

Oh yes, and as a wing I am pretty cognizant, I just had a wall of players behind me and couldn't move any further back.

[ElvisLives]

Oh yes, and as a wing I am pretty cognizant, I just had a wall of players behind me and couldn't move any further back.

I'm wondering how the stake got bent. Were you still holding the stake when a player contacted it?  If it was laying flat on the ground, the potential for damage to stake, or human, is nearly zero.
It is a tie between Oklahoma and Oklahoma State as to which has the tightest sidelines, but even at those places, there is enough room to lay the stakes down (even perpendicular to the sidelines, but they don't have to be), and get the heck out of there. Move backward/upfield/downfield as necessary. You don't need to see what is happening on the field. Lay the stake down as you are turning to find an escape route, and run! Don't wait until they are at the sideline. Don't wait until they are outside the numbers. Once they are at the numbers and moving toward you, lay 'em down and get the heck out.
 

[yarnnelg]

I wonder ....does the Head Linesman carry an extra set of batteries for the digital down marker .....Or is it plug in charge with a top speed of 200 flips at 200 mph for four hours of playtime ?

 

[HLinNC]

Well, the one that was sitting in our dressing room in Week 3 was plugged into a wall charger.  It never did make it outside.  We used an old flip model with faded numbers.   I sensed trouble when the PA announcer started calling for chain crew members to report to the field.  This school has had a steady crew for years.

 The home team had a new AD and HFC and when we all starting having trouble with the clock operators, I came to the conclusion that the previous administration took the folder marked "Hosting a Home FB Game" with them when they left.

[Etref]