Author Topic: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection  (Read 7392 times)

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Online dammitbobby

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Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« on: October 14, 2021, 09:58:43 AM »
I am sure there is more to this story, just sharing what I have seen.

https://www.kcbd.com/2021/10/13/frenship-issues-statement-forfeited-game-against-san-angelo-central/?outputType=apps

Ejections, like diamonds, are forever.  Even if done in error.  TBH I've not seen one person (and this is a hot topic on facebook and other social platforms yesterday and today) who thinks what the UIL did was right, or fair.

Offline Etref

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2021, 05:55:14 PM »
Sounds as if the coach pulled the player after the unsportsmanlike and self reported to,UIL.
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Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2021, 05:59:45 AM »
That’s a really strange sequence of events.  Keep us posted as you get more info, please.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2021, 07:48:48 AM »
Sounds as if the coach pulled the player after the unsportsmanlike and self reported to,UIL.

No, they truly believed he'd been DQd. In the day(s) after the game, they were told that he should not have been DQd, and, since the crew did not file an incident report, but without verifying with the UIL, believed him to be eligible, so he played in the Central game. Obviously, at some point Central became aware of the apparent DQ in the previous game, and, after they lost to Frenship, filed a grievance with the UIL. The UIL supported Central's grievance and ordered a forfeit. Frenship appealed, but their appeal was denied.
As to the exact nature of how the DQ / Not DQd happened, I don't know. But, the player was not "sat down" by the team voluntarily during that game, and Frenship did not 'self report.'

From an officiating standpoint, the lesson here is that we must be 100% clear with teams regarding the nature of fouls called, and IF a player is DQd (remember, we don't have player "ejections" as defined by NCAA rules). Once we declare a DQ, we can't "take it back," so we must be 100% positive, either that it was a flagrant foul, or it was a second UNS, or a targeting following a prior non-flagrant targeting during that game. (For those outside Texas, since we don't have the luxury of replay, we have two levels of targeting - non-flagrant, when it sure looks like targeting, but we can't positively identify all of the required elements for targeting (not DQd), and flagrant, when can positively say all elements are present (DQ).)

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Online dammitbobby

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2021, 09:50:12 AM »
A little different perspective on the incident. 

https://www.mrt.com/sports/highschool/article/HADORN-Frenship-s-forfeit-shakes-up-District-16531200.php

'A coach told me Wednesday that the UIL responds to questions and phone calls in a prompt manner and that he would never risk suiting up a player in question unless he had documentation from the UIL.'

https://sanangelolive.com/news/sports/2021-10-13/update-uil-forces-frenship-forfeit-win-over-central

Kind of biased reporting, but semi-valid point:

'During the meeting, the Frenship Head Coach and Assistant Athletic Director Jay Northcutt attempted to evade the charge by denying that they knew of the rule. UIL Director of Compliance Darryl Beasley claims the rules were presented during their mandatory annual coaches training.

"If you don't read the manual then I can't help you," said Beasley.'

I say semi valid because it's not right to penalize the player, and the team, for an error by the officials, that is clearly not a judgement call, but a true error.  Not criticizing the crew at all, mistakes happen, but this outcome isn't right.

Also from an officiating standpoint, and maybe I've not been an official long enough to understand all the nuances of this, but what makes an ejection official?  White hat announcing it?  From their actions, UIL has essentially said the incident report doesn't validate the ejection; if anything, IMO it makes incident reporting almost worthless. Especially if UIL didn't reach out to the officials to understand what happened (I've no idea if they did or not.)


Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2021, 10:19:35 AM »
This is unfair to everyone, especially the school. If the school can appeal the ejection, because as described it was dome incorrectly, there is no reason why they should be forced to forfeit. I would make sure to haveall the details before an ejection, and if I have a UNS, announce that "this is #25's first unsportsmanlike conduct foul" to leave no doubt. If it is a second foul, or a flagrant unsportsmanlike foul, I would make it clear in the penalty announcement, have both coaches informed of the disqualification, and file the incident report so there are no grounds to protest.

Online dammitbobby

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2021, 10:28:57 AM »
AFAIK there is no appeal for an ejection.  The issue came up because a different school filed a grievance, that they played an ineligible player.

Online Legacy Zebra

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2021, 10:34:17 AM »
I have a sneaky suspicion that this particular incident is why TASO sent out the broadcast email about disqualifications a couple weeks ago. Be thorough and make sure everybody knows exactly what is happening and why he is being disqualified. And NEVER tell a coach that a player needs to leave for a few plays or needs to “cool down”. Either he is dq’d or he isn’t.

Offline TxBJ

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2021, 12:35:13 PM »
This also illustrates why every crew member must recored every UNS.  All 5 (or 7) officials should have been able to verify or dispute whether it was a second UNS.

The two articles linked above paint different pictures.  One says the coach thought it was okay to play him since the officials said they made a mistake in DQ'ing the player.  That is what has been widely reported.  The second says he claimed not to know it was a rule.  That's very different.

Either way, it lies on the coach.  In the first version he should have done his due diligence with the UIL.  In the second, well, you gotta know the rules.

Online dammitbobby

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2021, 01:36:35 PM »
Either way, it lies on the coach.  In the first version he should have done his due diligence with the UIL.  In the second, well, you gotta know the rules.

I don't disagree.  That said, this was not a fair or equitable outcome for anyone involved.  He shouldn't have been required to be benched, because he wasn't guilty of conduct in the game that warranted/required it. At some point, common sense should have been used.  No one would have/should have an objection to UIL saying that he wasn't required to be punished for what was clearly an administrative error. 



Offline Etref

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Re: Frenship forced to forfeit over mistaken ejection
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2021, 04:50:00 PM »
As an R I always went to the coach and if possible has the calling official “close” and explained the disqualification. No misunderstanding
" I don't make the rules coach!"