Author Topic: Blowing the play dead (Read 12143 times)

NNDman · « **on:** November 21, 2021, 12:22:58 PM »

Friday night was a first for me. I'd say half to 2/3s of the plays were never whistled dead. On one play the defense had the ball carrier stopped at the line of scrimmage, no whistle despite his forward progress being stopped, defense eases up and the ball carrier continues for about a 3 yard gain. Was this just and instance of the officials agreeing not to blow the plays dead? It was very strange and confusing.

Derek Teigen · « **Reply #1 on:** November 21, 2021, 12:34:06 PM »

I have been taught that the whistle is simply a courtesy to let the players know the play is dead and we are not obligated to blow our whistles on every play. Still, no whistles on the majority of plays is unusual. What were the field conditions? I did a game this year that was so muddy you could never really tell who had the ball until we were right on the downed player and I often did not blow my whistle during game because by that time is was superfluous! Also in my experience there are some White Hats who want a whistle on every play and others who do not deem it necessary so that is something I pre-game.

NNDman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 21, 2021, 12:41:32 PM »

Field conditions were fine. Was probably the first game night when it was cold with temperatures in the 30s.

HLinNC · « **Reply #3 on:** November 21, 2021, 03:55:33 PM »

College has a philosophy of not blowing their whistles much. Some of that occasionally morphs down to our ranks.

Whistles are handy for those of us who have gone downfield with receivers.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #4 on:** November 21, 2021, 04:24:44 PM »

When YOU DECIDE a play is stopped (over) your whistle alerts EVERYBODY else, its over. YOUR whistle is intended to avoid unnecessary contact after the fact, reducing the potential of unnecessary confusion and a wide variety of assorted problems.

refjeff · « **Reply #5 on:** November 21, 2021, 04:55:10 PM »

When I started decades ago I was taught that when one blew his whistle everybody blew their whistle.

We don't do that anymore, but ...

As officials, we know that all of us should not be looking at the runner or the pass, and many of us fail to understand that many of the players are also not looking at the runner or the pass. I want one, maybe two, strong whistle(s) every play.

We had two varsity games this year on muddy, sloppy fields. We had some plays where we had no idea where the ball was until one of us was at the pile looking at the downed player, but we had a whistle.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #6 on:** November 21, 2021, 06:39:26 PM »

I blow mine out of necessity at the referee position. Rarely ever otherwise.

OAN, I haven’t heard a whistle (including my own) in 10 years. High frequency hearing loss from working in a sawmill coupled with rifle range in the military back in the days when our earplugs were cigarette butts.

At any rate, our crew has become great at hand signals and radio communication. They do blow their whistles for the benefit of the players.

Lastly, we do not feel obligated to blow our whistles to prevent late hits, etc. it’s up to the players involved to understand when the play is over. Our motto is slow and late is better than quick and early.

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PABJNR · « **Reply #7 on:** November 21, 2021, 07:54:13 PM »

Two great pieces of advice I received over the years from my mentors.

— There is only one time a whistle ends a down

And regarding officiating scrimmage kicks with a fair catch

— Your whistle does not provide the player’s protection, his signal does.

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Ralph Damren · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2021, 06:09:05 AM »

Slipping in moose dung ain't no fun

and neither is an eager tweeter tweeting early.

Only one whistle is needed to end the play and that should be by the covering official. The only time others should tweet is if Bubba and Tugboat are still dancing after the play is over.

[/SEE THE BALL BEFORE YOU TWEET AND YOUR FELLOW ZEBRAS WILL THINK YOU'RE NEAT!b]

bama_stripes · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2021, 07:06:55 AM »

Part of my pregame every game is:

“Don’t blow your whistle if you don’t see the ball. There’s nothing wrong with having a play that ends without a whistle.”

Ralph Damren · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2021, 09:05:33 AM »

Quote from: bama_stripes on November 22, 2021, 07:06:55 AM

Part of my pregame every game is:

“Don’t blow your whistle if you don’t see the ball. There’s nothing wrong with having a play that ends without a whistle.”

The play ends the play, the whistle is only a reminder

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2021, 09:26:24 AM »

Quote from: Ralph Damren on November 22, 2021, 09:05:33 AM

The play ends the play, the whistle is only a reminder

But of high importance to all, it is the reminder to as many as 2/3rd's of the players and officials who have no view of the actual play ending on the field that the play has officially ended. Certain plays IMHO we must have a whistle: free kicks, scrimmage kicks, and forward progress plays among them. And agreed with the posts here that the whistle is to notify those of us who don't have a clear view of the play, that in fact the play has ended.

When I'm the R I don't like explaining to our commissioner why we had a DB-UNR on a kick play away from the DB spot when we did not have a whistle letting everyone know the play was over. The whistle serves a very clear purpose, we should be using it.

refjeff · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2021, 12:07:24 PM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on November 22, 2021, 09:26:24 AM

But of high importance to all, it is the reminder to as many as 2/3rd's of the players and officials who have no view of the actual play ending on the field that the play has officially ended. Certain plays IMHO we must have a whistle: free kicks, scrimmage kicks, and forward progress plays among them. And agreed with the posts here that the whistle is to notify those of us who don't have a clear view of the play, that in fact the play has ended.

When I'm the R I don't like explaining to our commissioner why we had a DB-UNR on a kick play away from the DB spot when we did not have a whistle letting everyone know the play was over. The whistle serves a very clear purpose, we should be using it.

yes, yes, yes

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2021, 05:13:06 PM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on November 22, 2021, 09:26:24 AM

But of high importance to all, it is the reminder to as many as 2/3rd's of the players and officials who have no view of the actual play ending on the field that the play has officially ended. Certain plays IMHO we must have a whistle: free kicks, scrimmage kicks, and forward progress plays among them. And agreed with the posts here that the whistle is to notify those of us who don't have a clear view of the play, that in fact the play has ended.

When I'm the R I don't like explaining to our commissioner why we had a DB-UNR on a kick play away from the DB spot when we did not have a whistle letting everyone know the play was over. The whistle serves a very clear purpose, we should be using it.

IMO, If we have contact rising to the level,of UNR on a play when the players are too far away to know the play is over, we have other issues. If they are too far away to know the play is over, they are not supposed to be blocking any way. “Clearly out of the play”.

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NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2021, 05:31:31 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 22, 2021, 05:13:06 PM

IMO, If we have contact rising to the level,of UNR on a play when the players are too far away to know the play is over, we have other issues. If they are too far away to know the play is over, they are not supposed to be blocking any way. “Clearly out of the play”.

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Not so. Virtually all kick plays have the majority of blockers ahead of and with thier backs to the area where the ball is. Also true on many pass plays. IMHO we should have a "the play is over" confirmation whistle on most plays. That's what the whistle is for, let's use it for what is intended for.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2021, 08:42:50 PM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on November 22, 2021, 05:31:31 PM

Not so. Virtually all kick plays have the majority of blockers ahead of and with thier backs to the area where the ball is. Also true on many pass plays. IMHO we should have a "the play is over" confirmation whistle on most plays. That's what the whistle is for, let's use it for what is intended for.

Maybe you missed the point. Simply continuing to block immediately after the play becomes dead should never be considered UNR. If we have a hit so far away from the ball that rises to UNR, a whistle will not solve the problem. In fact, that type of contact is considered a foul even if the ball is still live.

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refjeff · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2021, 08:51:23 PM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 22, 2021, 08:42:50 PM

Maybe you missed the point. Simply continuing to block immediately after the play becomes dead should never be considered UNR. If we have a hit so far away from the ball that rises to UNR, a whistle will not solve the problem. In fact, that type of contact is considered a foul even if the ball is still live.

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Nonsense.

NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2021, 04:47:37 AM »

Quote from: CalhounLJ on November 22, 2021, 08:42:50 PM

Maybe you missed the point. Simply continuing to block immediately after the play becomes dead should never be considered UNR. If we have a hit so far away from the ball that rises to UNR, a whistle will not solve the problem. In fact, that type of contact is considered a foul even if the ball is still live.
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Maybe you missed the point. We all have whistles, not sounding a whistle after a play is over is simply a lame excuse for not learning the correct end of play mechanics that we all need to know. Simply learn to use your whistle as it's intended and stop worrying about the dreaded IW.

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2021, 05:40:12 AM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on November 23, 2021, 04:47:37 AM

Maybe you missed the point. We all have whistles, not sounding a whistle after a play is over is simply a lame excuse for not learning the correct end of play mechanics that we all need to know. Simply learn to use your whistle as it's intended and stop worrying about the dreaded IW.

Yeah, you definitely missed the point.

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NVFOA_Ump · « **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2021, 06:28:55 AM »

Brilliant! Thanks for the information! :thumbupNJ

CalhounLJ · « **Reply #20 on:** November 23, 2021, 06:30:57 AM »

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AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #21 on:** November 23, 2021, 08:58:04 AM »

Quote from: NVFOA_Ump on November 23, 2021, 04:47:37 AM

Maybe you missed the point. We all have whistles, not sounding a whistle after a play is over is simply a lame excuse for not learning the correct end of play mechanics that we all need to know. Simply learn to use your whistle as it's intended and stop worrying about the dreaded IW.

Absolutely correct. The whistle signals (alerts, designates, declares, warns, etc.) that the play has ended, at which time physical interaction should STOP. Players, away from the immediate stopping action are OFTEN not immediately aware of the stoppage and the sound of the whistle is designed to alert them to that IMMEDIATE fact.

Not EVERY continuing action is a foul, but the intent of the whistle is to effectively avoid continuing action DEVELOPING into a foul, which has been EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE for well over 100 years. Avoiding that simple, UNIVERSALLY recognized practice is lazy and dumb.

Derek Teigen · « **Reply #22 on:** November 23, 2021, 11:34:54 AM »

my New Year's resolution is to never blow my whistle unless I actually see the ball in the hands of a downed player. Many times I see a player with the ball go down but his back is to me and so the ball is hidden but I would be blowing the play dead never-the-less. I never had an IW because of this but I am going to be more careful. It will mean more delayed whistles and perhaps even more plays without a whistle but I think there would be far less whistles blown if they were only blown when the officials actually saw the ball in possession of a downed player.

AlUpstateNY · « **Reply #23 on:** November 23, 2021, 02:44:09 PM »

Quote from: Derek Teigen on November 23, 2021, 11:34:54 AM

my New Year's resolution is to never blow my whistle unless I actually see the ball in the hands of a downed player. Many times I see a player with the ball go down but his back is to me and so the ball is hidden but I would be blowing the play dead never-the-less. I never had an IW because of this but I am going to be more careful. It will mean more delayed whistles and perhaps even more plays without a whistle but I think there would be far less whistles blown if they were only blown when the officials actually saw the ball in possession of a downed player.

You're correct Derek until you are SURE the ball is in possession of a player who is down, you hold YOUR whistle. However, when a crewmate sounds his whistle, the play is OVER (even though it may subsequently be ruled an IW) and we each must TRUST our crewmates, to help prevent any unnecessary continuing action to avoid additional problems, by repeating the crewmates signals (audible by whistle, visible by signal).

NFHS: 4-2-2-a through l advises when a ball becomes DEAD (by rule) and the down is ended, 4-2-3 confirms, "An Inadvertent Whistle ends the down.

yarnnelg · « **Reply #24 on:** December 11, 2021, 07:24:50 PM »

Depend on the covering official to end the play ...

Line Judge, watching a wrestling contest in front of me ....I'm standing still ... suddenly a whistle sounds from our back judge. He comes running in while I drop my bag. "What's wrong with you? Didn't you see forward progress topped?" I walked toward the group of players, picked up the ball and put it into his stomach ..."No one has recovered the fumble yet."

White Hat was aces ....told him "Give me your whistle. If you have a spare in your pocket, that one too."

He was one of our test wizards always 98-99 on the tests ...But you never wanted him on a field with you.