Who watches the clock?

[ncwingman]

I feel this is a fly poop in the pepper point, but watching a few other leagues got me thinking.

Let's say clock is stopped, will restart on the snap. There's a false start just prior to the snap, in that the play *looks* like it started, but it is immediately whistled down, flags flying, etc. In the action, the clock operator who is the left guard's father, started then quickly stopped the clock, but two seconds came off. If there's <1 minute left in the half, you may reset the clock, but if it's 2 minutes into the game, a) would you notice and b) would you reset it even if you did notice and c) would you "let" the left guard's father reset it themselves without instruction? Would you change your mind if the clock operator was another official?

Most recently, I've seen this happen in the NHL playoffs. A false start on a faceoff results in the clock running momentarily, but they just reset it without announcement -- however, this will also happen in the NFL as well (and *maybe* NCAA?). I've got my own thoughts on this, but want to hear other's opinions.

[bama_stripes]

Our local policy is to reset if we’re under 2 minutes left in a half.  I always make an O2O announcement to my crew: “Under 2, clock aware.”  This also serves as a reminder that there are additional clock options on penalty enforcements.

We would also reset if this happened on the first play of any period, since everybody knows the clock should be at 12:00.

[AlUpstateNY]

I feel this is a fly poop in the pepper point, but watching a few other leagues got me thinking.

You are correct it is fly poop.  As Mr. Lombardi suggest "Perfection is NOT attainable, but if we chase perfection, we can attain excellence.".

When we make a mistake, we're expected to correct/off set it. Often, how best to do that offers choices.  Most clock operators/BJ's can both count past 2, and sometimes the rest of us simply have to TRUST them to do what's best (when they KNOW they've made a mistake.)

Long, LONG time ago our  organization "ancestors" bit the bullet and insisted that, when a scoreboard clock was in use ONLY a certified Official would run it (youth, sub-varsity, Varsity, Playoff), which thankfully has eliminated .99+% of fly poop problems related to timing. Without a scoreboard clock (now , virtually NEVER) the  Clock is kept on the field by the Field Crew).

When/IF necessary NFHS 3-4-8 & 9 authorizes "the referee to correct obvious errors.....". 

Sometimes it turns out best to ignore flies, especially when they poop & just clean up any mess they may have caused.

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, anytime the clock inadvertently drops a few seconds from a play that never should have gotten off , usually false start or encroachment, it should be corrected. To me, this both shows that we are watching and advises the frenzied masses that what they just saw was an optical illusion and didn't really happen  . A major concern when adding free kick infractions was that this would become a problem as the whistle can't be sounded until the ball is kicked.  This phobia proved to be unfounded , as the clock can't start until legally touched and during that interval the play is shut down.

[ElvisLives]

IMHO, anytime the clock inadvertently drops a few seconds from a play that never should have gotten off , usually false start or encroachment, it should be corrected. To me, this both shows that we are watching and advises the frenzied masses that what they just saw was an optical illusion and didn't really happen  . A major concern when adding free kick infractions was that this would become a problem as the whistle can't be sounded until the ball is kicked.  This phobia proved to be unfounded , as the clock can't start until legally touched and during that interval the play is shut down.

And, you would hope that the GCOs are trained and/or smart enough to recognize this error EVENT (not really an error, just something that happens) on their own, and just automatically re-set the clock. If they have any doubt, yeah, just leave the clock as it is and see if the crew wants them to re-set it. These events are a bit different than if the GCO simply doesn't stop the clock on time, and a few seconds run off during the middle of a period. Usually, we're the only ones that know that. But, when the clock runs ands there wasn't a play, that's too obvious and noticeable. Those need to be fixed.

[Covid 22]

Back in the olden when you could buy a hamburger, fries and a drink for $2.00 and sometimes get change, my first R had a plan for this.

At the meeting before the game with the clock operator, he told him (always a him) that if we stopped a play like that, he would give give the clock operator a sign.  This meant that the CO was not to start the clock until the R wound the clock.   In Mississippi at this time, the CO was close enough to the field, he could probably hear our normal conversations.   Anyway, it always worked.

[ncwingman]

IMHO, anytime the clock inadvertently drops a few seconds from a play that never should have gotten off , usually false start or encroachment, it should be corrected. To me, this both shows that we are watching and advises the frenzied masses that what they just saw was an optical illusion and didn't really happen  . A major concern when adding free kick infractions was that this would become a problem as the whistle can't be sounded until the ball is kicked.  This phobia proved to be unfounded , as the clock can't start until legally touched and during that interval the play is shut down.

This is where I am as well. If those seconds are crucial at the end of the half/game, then they're crucial earlier as well. If you let those two seconds run off early in the quarter, those are two seconds they should have had during the final drive of the game and *maybe* changes strategy -- especially if it was several times and it was actually a 10 second difference.

Usually, we see this more with a clock not immediately stopping when a play goes out of bounds or an incomplete pass and general local philosophy is not to go chasing seconds on the game clock. From a practicality side, that makes sense to me -- as a back judge, I'm probably more focused on the action going out of bounds, not when the clock actually stopped even though the accuracy of the game clock would be my responsibility. Doubly so if changing the clock means telling the home head coach to call up to his offensive coordinator to lean over to the clock operator to tell him to put two seconds on the clock, which he doesn't know how to do since he was pressed into service at the last minute because the usual guy didn't show up. However, philosophically, that never really sat well with me.

[HLinNC]

In that vein, the opposite tends to happen on an onside/short kick situation.  R touches the ball and is quickly downed.  We crank when it is legally touched but many times no time comes off when there should have been a tick or two come off.

[ElvisLives]

This why all stadia should be required to have a referee's field mic, with a speaker in the GCOs space. "Clock operator, please set the game clock to 6:37 - six-three-seven." When he's got that done, "Thank you." And all is well.

But they don't. So we do what we can.

[dammitbobby]

This why all stadia should be required to have a referee's field mic, with a speaker in the GCOs space. "Clock operator, please set the game clock to 6:37 - six-three-seven." When he's got that done, "Thank you." And all is well.

But they don't. So we do what we can.

Alternatively, an extra radio for the GC operator works as well. 

[Ralph Damren]

In Maine, our crowds average between 9 and 10,000 (note I didn't say between 9.000 & 10,000) as usually at least 9 parents will attend to watch their kids play. I assume that in a previous life I was a TOWN-CRYER ( the guy that yells: "NINE O'CLOCK AND ALL IS WELL !") and can be heard from the press box.

[riffraft]

Alternatively, an extra radio for the GC operator works as well.

The only issue with that is getting the radio back after the game. 

[refjeff]

We're going to reset the clock.

[Ralph Damren]

We had a clock issue in my season-opener last year.......

SCENE : 8-man game, A leads 48-46 W/ball @ B's 5 with 1:30 to go in game, when......

ACT I : Runner was stacked up a sweep near LOS;

ACT II : Ball came loose , wing (a rookie)  DIDN'T blow his whistle;

ACT III : B15 scooped up the ball and began his 85 yard journey to 

ACT IV :  we discussed, the was now at 1: 12, wing said he couldn't tell (but didn't beanbag spot) U & BJ felt forward progress had stopped .

ACT V :  After signaling the ball was dead, I approached B's coach to explain our decision. Coach responded : " I felt he was down, too. But, do we get any time back on the clock ?" Being surprised that the coach that had a ruling go against him in that situation agreed, I asked : "How long would it take your player to run 85+ yards ?" He responded : " He's not our fastest, maybe 0:15 ?" Me : "Ya' got it, and where the play ended inbounds, the clock will start on my ready". Coach : My players will be ready on your ready."

EPILOGUE : This occurred on 2nd down, A didn't score again, but won.
                  When the game ended, B's coach came over and thanked us.
                  A's coach didn't
                  B's coach has coached for 30+ years, his teams have won several sportsmanship awards.
                  When a coach is rational to us, I felt when I asked how long it took Tugboat, his linebacker, for his journey; I would get an honest answer.
                  There was a store near the field. The rookie wing provided the refreshments 

[ElvisLives]

We had a clock issue in my season-opener last year.......

SCENE : 8-man game, A leads 48-46 W/ball @ B's 5 with 1:30 to go in game, when......

ACT I : Runner was stacked up a sweep near LOS;

ACT II : Ball came loose , wing (a rookie)  DIDN'T blow his whistle;

ACT III : B15 scooped up the ball and began his 85 yard journey to 

ACT IV :  we discussed, the was now at 1: 12, wing said he couldn't tell (but didn't beanbag spot) U & BJ felt forward progress had stopped .

ACT V :  After signaling the ball was dead, I approached B's coach to explain our decision. Coach responded : " I felt he was down, too. But, do we get any time back on the clock ?" Being surprised that the coach that had a ruling go against him in that situation agreed, I asked : "How long would it take your player to run 85+ yards ?" He responded : " He's not our fastest, maybe 0:15 ?" Me : "Ya' got it, and where the play ended inbounds, the clock will start on my ready". Coach : My players will be ready on your ready."

EPILOGUE : This occurred on 2nd down, A didn't score again, but won.
                  When the game ended, B's coach came over and thanked us.
                  A's coach didn't
                  B's coach has coached for 30+ years, his teams have won several sportsmanship awards.
                  When a coach is rational to us, I felt when I asked how long it took Tugboat, his linebacker, for his journey; I would get an honest answer.
                  There was a store near the field. The rookie wing provided the refreshments 

And just where do you grow those kinds of coaches? Those farmers/ranchers need some major subsidies.

[Ralph Damren]

And just where do you grow those kinds of coaches? Those farmers/ranchers need some major subsidies.

From Bar Harbor, the tourist capitol of Maine  . It seems that officials are usually treated like tourists when visiting the island. We have other 'visits' where we don't feel quite as welcomed !

[ElvisLives]

From Bar Harbor, the tourist capitol of Maine  . It seems that officials are usually treated like tourists when visiting the island. We have other 'visits' where we don't feel quite as welcomed !

Ah, Bah Hahbah. Uv caus. (Don't know what "fake news" is, but I do know a fake accent, and that is it.  )