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Author Topic: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement  (Read 9178 times)

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Offline cma14

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Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« on: September 03, 2022, 02:41:12 PM »
If a penalty for illegal helmet contact is enforced from the end of the run (basic spot) does the down count or does the offense get to replay the down?
« Last Edit: September 03, 2022, 02:56:38 PM by cma14 »
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Offline TxBJ

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2022, 05:49:15 PM »
You didn't specify which set of rules you are asking about, but for NCAA the down would be repeated.  There is no live ball foul by the defense that would result in a loss of down for the offense.
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Offline cma14

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2022, 12:00:59 AM »
apologies. NHFS (high school)

It's my understanding that the penalty yards should be enforced from the original LOS. If the yards gained on the run are to be factored in the play has to stand and the down "counts."
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Offline GA Umpire

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2022, 12:27:51 AM »
Quote from: cma14 on September 04, 2022, 12:00:59 AM
apologies. NHFS (high school)

It's my understanding that the penalty yards should be enforced from the original LOS. If the yards gained on the run are to be factored in the play has to stand and the down "counts."

You did not state whether the foul was committed before the play ended or after the play.
You implied that the play was a running play because the basic spot you stated was the end of the run.
 
If the foul occurred before the end of the down, and if you have a 2022 NFHS Rules Book, the reference is 5-2-2b.

If the foul occurred after the play ended, yes the down will "count" and then the penalty yardage will be administered.
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2022, 10:57:07 AM »
Who was the foul on?  Quite a bit of pertinent details missing.  If the foul was a live ball foul by B, A will repeat the down unless the penalty yardage made it a first down.

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Online Kalle

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2022, 11:21:32 AM »
Quote from: HLinNC on September 04, 2022, 10:57:07 AM
Who was the foul on?  Quite a bit of pertinent details missing.  If the foul was a live ball foul by B, A will repeat the down unless the penalty yardage made it a first down.

Hmm, I'd assumed that in NFHS a live ball personal foul such as illegal helmet contact by team A does not have a loss of down penalty component. Have I been incorrect all this time?
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2022, 12:52:03 PM »
Quote from: Kalle on September 04, 2022, 11:21:32 AM
Hmm, I'd assumed that in NFHS a live ball personal foul such as illegal helmet contact by team A does not have a loss of down penalty component. Have I been incorrect all this time?
You assume correctly. What in his post makes you think otherwise?


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Offline cma14

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2022, 01:25:10 PM »
1st and 20 from the A25
A10 runs the ball for 2 yards to the A27.
During the run (live ball foul), B75 is flagged for illegal helmet contact at the A28 yard line.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2022, 01:42:38 PM by cma14 »
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2022, 02:49:04 PM »
Quote from: cma14 on September 04, 2022, 01:25:10 PM
1st and 20 from the A25
A10 runs the ball for 2 yards to the A27.
During the run (live ball foul), B75 is flagged for illegal helmet contact at the A28 yard line.
1st and 3 from the 42 if I add right.


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Offline cma14

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2022, 05:49:36 PM »
So you're saying 15 from the basic spot (end of the run) not the from where the penalty occurred?

Run ended 1 yard behind where the flag was thrown...
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Online Kalle

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2022, 12:24:13 AM »
Quote from: CalhounLJ on September 04, 2022, 12:52:03 PM
You assume correctly. What in his post makes you think otherwise?

Just the wording implying that you have to know which team the foul was against to decide if the down should be repeated. I guess I just misread the post, do note that English is not my native language.
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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2022, 06:01:20 AM »
Quote from: cma14 on September 04, 2022, 05:49:36 PM
So you're saying 15 from the basic spot (end of the run) not the from where the penalty occurred?

Run ended 1 yard behind where the flag was thrown...
All live ball fouls by B are enforced from the basic spot. The basic spot for a foul during a running play is the end of the run. So yes. 

All live ball fouls by A are enforced from the basic spot, except one. A foul by A behind the basic spot. That foul is enforced from the spot of the foul.

There are special enforcements which create exceptions to this principle, but this is the essence of the all-but-one enforcement philosophy.

Read rule 10.


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Offline CalhounLJ

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2022, 07:21:38 AM »
Quote from: Kalle on September 05, 2022, 12:24:13 AM
Just the wording implying that you have to know which team the foul was against to decide if the down should be repeated. I guess I just misread the post, do note that English is not my native language.
Yeah I see where you could read it that way but I don’t think that’s what he meant. I took it to mean that the question of possession is essential to proper enforcement. To state it clearly, the down would be repeated in either case.


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Offline Covid 22

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2022, 08:22:06 AM »
Do any PF's on the defense carry an automatic 1st and 10 in NFHS?
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Offline bossman72

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Re: Illegal helmet contact penalty enforcement
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2022, 08:45:52 AM »
Quote from: Covid 22 on September 06, 2022, 08:22:06 AM
Do any PF's on the defense carry an automatic 1st and 10 in NFHS?

Only fouls with "roughing" in the name are auto 1st in NFHS.
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