illegal forward pass

[Derek Teigen]

For Illegal Forward Pass, my understanding is it is a spot foul (5 yards and a loss of down).  Is this correct? 

[AlUpstateNY]

For Illegal Forward Pass, my understanding is it is a spot foul (5 yards and a loss of down).  Is this correct?

YES (NFHS: 7-5-2 (Table 5-2)

[Derek Teigen]

just wondering why penalty enforcement isn't from the previous spot because it was a 'loose ball' play.......

[Ralph Damren]

The IFP family are all treated as running plays because :

(1) IG needs to be enforced from spot foul (all-but one) to prevent A from gaining an advantage of enforcement from previous spot.

(2) An illgeal forward pitch many yards downfield wouldn't be fair to enforce from previous spot.That is why IG from one's EZ is always a safety (unless intercepted) as run ends there if penalty is declined.

[dch]

Most importantly --- an illegal forward pass (from behind or beyond the LOS) does not meet the very definition of a loose ball play.  Therefore it is a running play and the Basic Spot is the end of the run.

[bama_stripes]

just wondering why penalty enforcement isn't from the previous spot because it was a 'loose ball' play.......

“Platypus” enforcement.  It’s still considered a pass, since if it hits the ground uncaught it’s incomplete.  But it’s enforced as a running play, as Ralph so eloquently explained above.

[NVFOA_Ump]

The IFP family are all treated as running plays because :

(1) IG needs to be enforced from spot foul (all-but one) to prevent A from gaining an advantage of enforcement from previous spot.

(2) An illgeal forward pitch many yards downfield wouldn't be fair to enforce from previous spot.That is why IG from one's EZ is always a safety (unless intercepted) as run ends there if penalty is declined.

Well said!   

[ncwingman]

I'm not disagreeing with the outcomes of anything people have said, but I feel we're missing something in the details here because it sounds like we're creating exceptions to rules that don't exist.

An IFP *is* a loose ball play. The BASIC SPOT for a loose ball play is the previous spot, and it always is. However, under the all-but-one principle, the ENFORCEMENT SPOT may be the spot of the foul, and not the basic spot, if it is a foul by A behind the basic spot.

For an IFP behind the LOS, the basic spot is the LOS but the spot of the foul is the spot of the IFP, behind the LOS. The penalty is enforced ABO from the spot of the foul. It is not "enforced as a running play", but rather as a loose ball play under the all-but-one principle.

If there was an IFP *beyond* the LOS, then the basic spot is the end of the related run (i.e., where the IFP was thrown). Since the spot of the foul and basic spot are the same spot then the enforcement spot is one and the same. Since throwing an IFP requires the ball in player possession first, the spot of an IFP beyond the LOS must always be the spot of the end of the related run.

The "exception" that's relevant comes up if the penalty for an incomplete IFP is declined. If a forward pass is incomplete, the ball is returned to the previous spot if legal and to the spot of the pass if illegal.

Again, the net result isn't different from what other people said, but trying to think of it as some exception to the rules may lead to further confusion down the line.

[NVFOA_Ump]

I'm not disagreeing with the outcomes of anything people have said, but I feel we're missing something in the details here because it sounds like we're creating exceptions to rules that don't exist.

An IFP *is* a loose ball play. The BASIC SPOT for a loose ball play is the previous spot, and it always is. However, under the all-but-one principle, the ENFORCEMENT SPOT may be the spot of the foul, and not the basic spot, if it is a foul by A behind the basic spot.

Actually the "exception" does exist and is 10-3-1-b.  10-3-1 : A loose ball play is action during:  b. a legal forward pass

An illegal forward pass is by definition and penalty enforcement a running play.

[Ralph Damren]

2-33-1 lists all possible loose ball plays - illegal forward pass isn't included

2-33-2  "A running play is any action not included in article 1...."

[CalhounLJ]

Actually the "exception" does exist and is 10-3-1-b.  10-3-1 : A loose ball play is action during:  b. a legal forward pass

An illegal forward pass is by definition and penalty enforcement a running play.

This is what I was trying to say when I erroneously said in a previous post that an illegal forward pass isn’t really a pass at all. That was a bad statement.  What I should have said is that an illegal,forward pass isn’t a loose ball play because the pass is illegal.


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