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Author Topic: Offsetting penalties?  (Read 6362 times)

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Offline mbaumgardner

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Offsetting penalties?
« on: October 24, 2022, 12:22:57 PM »
Situation:  Dead Ball, NFHS rules.  At the snap, two simultaneous whistles with flags by both wing officials.  LJ signals false start, HLM signals encroachment.  Players are on opposite end of lines not opposing each other.  Neither official can say what happened first.  Can these penalties offset?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2022, 08:50:48 AM by mbaumgardner »
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Offline HLinNC

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2022, 12:43:12 PM »
No.  After crew discussion, one or the other will be selected to enforce.  If your question is regarding NFHS rules, which should be addressed on the NFHS page on this board, by the way.
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Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2022, 01:19:16 PM »
Welcome, Mbaumgardner, to our forum. I hope you'll find it both enjoyable and informative. I assume that you ment encroachment on the defense. If you had dueling encroachment flags on both teams, and it appears a tie into the entry of the nuetral zone, charge false start on the offense as that would have preceded the encroachment.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2022, 01:35:09 PM »
The same answer applies to NCAA rules (and variants). If the action was really really simultaneous then it would be a false start, as the team A lineman can only react after the team B player has entered the neutral zone.
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Offline JasonTX

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2022, 05:44:16 PM »
Quote from: Kalle on October 24, 2022, 01:35:09 PM
The same answer applies to NCAA rules (and variants). If the action was really really simultaneous then it would be a false start, as the team A lineman can only react after the team B player has entered the neutral zone.
Except for NCAA, both Encroachment and False Start are team A fouls.
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Offline bossman72

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2022, 08:39:43 PM »
Pick one.  If you're unsure, put it on the offense.  These are really tough when you have to piece it together.
The wrong answer is offset.  It's one or the other.
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Offline Kalle

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2022, 03:44:18 AM »
Quote from: JasonTX on October 24, 2022, 05:44:16 PM
Except for NCAA, both Encroachment and False Start are team A fouls.

True, then you could have exactly the same timing, if one slowly moving lineman just enters the NZ and another lineman false starts - but I would still say enforce only one of these - doesn't matter which, both are 5-yarders - even if the rules say you should enforce all DB fouls :)
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Online ElvisLives

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Re: Offsetting penalties?
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2022, 06:18:59 AM »
OK, now we’re talking NCAA. There is a terminology difference, for certain, and there may be an actual rule difference, but I don’t know (I only know NCAA).
By rule, a B player does not commit a foul simply by entering the NZ before the snap begins. However, if his entry into the NZ causes a reaction by an A lineman in the immediate area, then he commits a (dead-ball) foul. If any other A player reacts, then Team A commits a (dead-ball) foul. So, there really can’t be simultaneous fouls. As officials, we simply have to decide what happened. Did B enter the NZ and cause A to react? Did A false start, causing B to react?
If we rule B fouls, that’s Offside. If we rule A fouls, that’s a False Start.
Unrelated to either of those is when a Team A player simply takes a position in or beyond the NZ before the snap. We always give them some time to adjust themselves back behind the NZ, but, if not, and the snap is clearly imminent, that player commits a (dead-ball) foul for Encroachment.
No simultaneous opposing fouls.
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