Watching Georgia High School football

[CalhounLJ]

On a try, the holder muffs the snap, the ball is loose on the ground. The kicker kicks the loose ball through the uprights. They called it good. I call it an illegal kick. What do y’all think?

[SCline]

  Illegal Kick

[fudilligas]

watching the same game.....uncovered knees all over the place....point of emphasis this year and still not enforced....what do we tell the coaches in our area when we make their players sit out a play 

[ncwingman]

I didn't see it, but I agree that's illegal based on the description.

However, that got me thinking, when is that play dead? A try is dead when it is apparent a drop or place kick will not score. An illegal kick cannot score, as only drop or place kicks can and those are defined as being legal kicks in Rule 2. However, being illegal, it's therefore not a drop or place kick and the ball remains live, even if it was blocked. K could recover the blocked illegal kick and advance it into the end zone -- where the illegal kick penalty would force the try to be replayed.

[CalhounLJ]

I didn't see it, but I agree that's illegal based on the description.

However, that got me thinking, when is that play dead? A try is dead when it is apparent a drop or place kick will not score. An illegal kick cannot score, as only drop or place kicks can and those are defined as being legal kicks in Rule 2. However, being illegal, it's therefore not a drop or place kick and the ball remains live, even if it was blocked. K could recover the blocked illegal kick and advance it into the end zone -- where the illegal kick penalty would force the try to be replayed.

Got me to thinking too. I agree with your situation. If K had scored on the play, it would indeed force a retry.

Also, think about this: in the actual play, because it was illegal kicking, the result of the play was not a good try, but technically a touchback. K kicked a fumble (muffed snap) into the end zone. So, in that situation, the penalty would be declined, the try would be unsuccessful, and we would move on to the kickoff. Right?

[SCline]

^^ & ^ agree with all of that

[Derek Teigen]

I think R could elect to have the illegal kicking penalty enforced on the kickoff, so k would kick from their 30 no?

[ncwingman]

I think R could elect to have the illegal kicking penalty enforced on the kickoff, so k would kick from their 30 no?

No, I also wondered that, but there is no provision for subsequent kickoff enforcement for fouls by the scoring team (unless it is unsportsmanlike/non player or dead ball). If the scoring team commits a live ball foul, the only enforcement option is to replay the down (barring loss of down being part of the penalty).

[CalhounLJ]

X

[Derek Teigen]

I didn't see it, but I agree that's illegal based on the description.

However, that got me thinking, when is that play dead? A try is dead when it is apparent a drop or place kick will not score. An illegal kick cannot score, as only drop or place kicks can and those are defined as being legal kicks in Rule 2. However, being illegal, it's therefore not a drop or place kick and the ball remains live, even if it was blocked. K could recover the blocked illegal kick and advance it into the end zone -- where the illegal kick penalty would force the try to be replayed.

Again correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think K could recover a blocked kick during a try and score because once the kick is blocked, the try has failed  8-3-2-b. 

Editing to add that even if this illegal kick had been blocked, I think this play should be shut down at the time of the illegal kick because it is impossible for K to score and allowing the play to continue might only result in an unnecessary injury

[CalhounLJ]

Again correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think K could recover a blocked kick during a try and score because once the kick is blocked, the try has failed  8-3-2-b. 

Editing to add that even if this illegal kick had been blocked, I think this play should be shut down at the time of the illegal kick because it is impossible for K to score and allowing the play to continue might only result in an unnecessary injury

I believe you are correct. Good catch!

[Derek Teigen]

Thanks, Calhoun. I went to bed thinking about this play and when I woke up, I was still thinking about it.

[ncwingman]

Philosophically, I agree. There's nothing good that can come after an illegal kick on a try.

However, I disagree on your interpretation of 8-3-2-b. It clearly states the try ends when "it is apparent a drop kick or place kick will not score". An illegal kick, like the one described at the start, is not a drop kick or place kick. Amend this line to include "or when the ball is illegally kicked by K" and I'd support it.

[Derek Teigen]

Yes, I believe you are correct because I suppose R could always foul and then the offsetting fouls mean the play is re-tried.

[CalhounLJ]

Philosophically, I agree. There's nothing good that can come after an illegal kick on a try.

However, I disagree on your interpretation of 8-3-2-b. It clearly states the try ends when "it is apparent a drop kick or place kick will not score". An illegal kick, like the one described at the start, is not a drop kick or place kick. Amend this line to include "or when the ball is illegally kicked by K" and I'd support it.

This is true. The first part of Derecks post is correct. If a try by kick is blocked the try is unsuccessful and the play is shut down. NC is right in that the situation he posted is not a kick because it’s not legal. I’m tired of thinking so hard. 😆

[Ralph Damren]

IMHO, the illegal kick would be treated like an illegal bat and remain alive until OOB. 'Tack-on' wouldn't apply a K is next to put the ball in play. Consider this tweak....

Holder muffs the snap, ball bouncing arount R's 8.
"Specs", the nearsighted kicker, tries to kick the ball but misses.
B's  big ole' Bubba dives for the ball, but muffs it into the Ez.
B's Tugboat recovers ball in EZ.

YOU MAKE THE CALL 

[Fatso]

IMHO, the illegal kick would be treated like an illegal bat and remain alive until OOB. 'Tack-on' wouldn't apply a K is next to put the ball in play. Consider this tweak....

Holder muffs the snap, ball bouncing arount R's 8.
"Specs", the nearsighted kicker, tries to kick the ball but misses.
B's  big ole' Bubba dives for the ball, but muffs it into the Ez.
B's Tugboat recovers ball in EZ.

YOU MAKE THE CALL 

Safety?

[Ralph Damren]

Safety?

yOU NAILED IT, score a point for Specs' team. 

[Fatso]

yOU NAILED IT, score a point for Specs' team. 

 

[refjeff]

On a try, the holder muffs the snap, the ball is loose on the ground. The kicker kicks the loose ball through the uprights. They called it good. I call it an illegal kick. What do y’all think?

2-24-9 Says an illegal kick has the same status it had before it was kicked.  Live ball in team A's possession. I was once told to treat it like a fumble.

4-2-2-i  Says during a try the ball is dead and the down ended when B secures possession or "it is apparent a kick has failed to score."  4-2-2-d talks about legal kicks.  This just says "kick."

The illegal kick in the OP was good, so 10-4-2-d, loose ball foul, 10 yards from the previous spot.

[CalhounLJ]

2-24-9 Says an illegal kick has the same status it had before it was kicked.  Live ball in team A's possession. I was once told to treat it like a fumble.

4-2-2-i  Says during a try the ball is dead and the down ended when B secures possession or "it is apparent a kick has failed to score."  4-2-2-d talks about legal kicks.  This just says "kick."

The illegal kick in the OP was good, so 10-4-2-d, loose ball foul, 10 yards from the previous spot.

If an illegal kick retains its status, it’s a fumble. Can a fumble be good?  I agree it’s a loose ball foul, but the end result is a touchback, not a “good try.” So therefore B would be smart to decline the penalty, no score and move on to the kickoff.

[bama_stripes]

Did the R not realize that the holder didn’t have control of the ball?

I’m not letting a team score by “cheating”. Give signal 31 followed by signal 10 and proceed to the kickoff.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Did the R not realize that the holder didn’t have control of the ball?

I’m not letting a team score by “cheating”. Give signal 31 followed by signal 10 and proceed to the kickoff.

Need to see the play but I find it hard to fathom an R missing this.  Did the holder have his hand on or very near the "loose ball" when it was actually kicked?

[Maineac]

watching the same game.....uncovered knees all over the place....point of emphasis this year and still not enforced....what do we tell the coaches in our area when we make their players sit out a play 

I actually saw them send a player from RG out early in the game for the knee pads…

[BetweenTheLines]

IMHO, the illegal kick would be treated like an illegal bat and remain alive until OOB. 'Tack-on' wouldn't apply a K is next to put the ball in play. Consider this tweak....

Holder muffs the snap, ball bouncing arount R's 8.
"Specs", the nearsighted kicker, tries to kick the ball but misses.
B's  big ole' Bubba dives for the ball, but muffs it into the Ez.
B's Tugboat recovers ball in EZ.

YOU MAKE THE CALL 

Safety and a 15 yard half the distance penalty on the following kick. For ole "Specs" kicking at the ball!