Author Topic: Scrimmage fees  (Read 8122 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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Scrimmage fees
« on: August 26, 2024, 02:02:57 PM »
Who sets the fees for scrimmages?

When was the last time it was updated?

I have a screenshot of the verbiage outlining the fees, but I don't know its source, whether it's UIL or TASO.


Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2024, 02:47:32 PM »
Scrimmage fees are set in UIL 1204.
Chapters shall be paid for scrimmages using the following fee schedule:

Baseball $100.00
Basketball $100.00
Football $150.00
Soccer $100.00
Softball $100.00
Volleyball $100.00
Water Polo $100.00
(Fees are based on a three-hour scrimmage.)

NOTE: After three hours, each additional hour is $75 for all sports except football, which is $100 each additional hour. The fees paid are regardless of the level of competition. The fee will be paid to the local chapter and not to the individual officials, to be used in place of assignment or service fees. A portion of these fees should be used for education, retention and recruitment of officials.

Chapters that agree to provide officials and charge for scrimmages are under obligation to provide officials for the school for the entire season, grades 7-12. A chapter that requests a service/assignor fee from schools will not be a chapter in good standing and thus will not be eligible for post-season assignments.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2024, 03:01:34 PM »
Even as they are, we need the scrimmages, just to get back in some king of flow. But, sadly, the value of scrimmages is really quite limited, except in those small percentage of instances where teams agree to run some significant amount of time under 'live action' conditions, with game and play clock operation, and true penalty enforcements. We do what we can, otherwise. But those live action conditions really let us get into the groove, so we are in good form in the first period of game 1. But, we don't get those often.

 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2024, 03:17:44 PM »
Oh, I agree they're necessary, and invaluable especially for newer officials. I'm just curious as to how long it's been since there was a pay increase on that.

It seems a bit inequitable given that for our chapter at least, some schools may get 7 officials and have to drive 5 min across town, while some schools get 3 or 4 officials, and are in band 3... I think a set cost per official might be more equitable, perhaps adjusted for mileage.

We're expected to work scrimmages for free, sure, but if we pay a crew $50 for the time and expense of traveling to a band 3 site for a game, the crew shouldn't have to eat that out of pocket just because it's the scrimmage they were assigned.

Offline blindtxzebra

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2024, 03:59:19 PM »
Scrimmage fees were increased sometime around 2021, not sure on the exact year. Our chapter pays up to 2 drivers per crew on any scrimmage in band 2 or greater (only a couple of schools for us are outside the third band) so that the officials are not out as much money. We simply pay what the travel allowance is on a regular game fee for that school. We started this in 2022 when fuel was ridiculously high. It also helps to fill those scrimmages as well.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2024, 04:03:32 PM »
Hopefully all the chapters are charging accordingly.  Add the extra $100 when it goes over 3 hours.  If there are multiple teams there then it counts as multiple scrimmages.  4 teams equals 2 scrimmages and should charge accordingly. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2024, 04:09:21 PM »
Hopefully all the chapters are charging accordingly.  Add the extra $100 when it goes over 3 hours.  If there are multiple teams there then it counts as multiple scrimmages.  4 teams equals 2 scrimmages and should charge accordingly.

Oh I didn't know that last part - I'm treasurer for our chapter now and I am def going to run that by our board for next year.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2024, 04:47:33 PM »
Hopefully all the chapters are charging accordingly.  Add the extra $100 when it goes over 3 hours.  If there are multiple teams there then it counts as multiple scrimmages.  4 teams equals 2 scrimmages and should charge accordingly.

How about 3 teams? The home team scrimmaged two different opponents, successively, not concurrently, with the same crew of 5.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2024, 10:15:43 AM »
How about 3 teams? The home team scrimmaged two different opponents, successively, not concurrently, with the same crew of 5.

I'm not sure about that.  Back in 2021 I inquired about 6 teams to TASO and this was the reply:

"I talked to the UIL and they agree with me that this is worth 3 scrimmage fees.
The UIL wants to know the six teams involved.  UIL policies state that a scrimmage can include no more than 4 teams."

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2024, 10:22:22 AM »
I think this year there was a 12 team scrimmage somewhere in the panhandle. No idea how they managed that LOL

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2024, 11:07:11 AM »
I’ve been told that some of the big city chapters only do varsity scrimmages, and limit them to 1-1/2 hours.

Offline JDM

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2024, 12:19:04 PM »
I’ve been told that some of the big city chapters only do varsity scrimmages, and limit them to 1-1/2 hours.

I can asssure you that is not the case for the Houston Chapter.

Offline ETXZebra

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2024, 01:11:52 PM »
Last week my crew had a 3-ways scrimmage. 200+ plays and it lasted 4-1/4 hr. With 3 live quarters. We need to something about this, especially with just one crew.

Offline Cosmokramer1

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2024, 03:18:12 PM »
Several things to comment on here in which I have first hand knowledge regarding scrimmages.

1.  It was stated already but the scrimmage fee increased from $125 to $150 approximately 4 years ago.  The UIL sets the scrimmage fees, again, as stated. 
2.  Schools WILL pay mileage to officials.  It's not spelled out in 1204 but if a chapter/official was to submit mileage following the regular game mileage instructions, schools will pay it. 
3.  If there are multiple crews working at the same time, either it be one on each end of the field or one on separate fields, that's a scrimmage per crew working.  I've even seen a situation where there were scrimmages being held on both ends of a field.  Once scrimmage lasted an hour with two freshman teams on one end.  Then on the other end that scrimmage lasted 3 1/2 hours because it included JV then Varsity.  Therefore, the hosting school was issued a scrimmage form to pay $400, and they did.  ($150 for the 1 hour scrimmage and $250 for the 3 1/2 hour scrimmage).  Again, the school paid it. 
4.  Most chapters I'm familiar with work varsity scrimmages only.  Because I've also seen/experienced it when the crew arrived for what they were told was a 4PM starting scrimmage.  So starting at 4PM out came the freshman.  Then at 5pm out came the JV, which they started at 5:30pm after warm up.  The JV scrimmage ended at 7PM.  So out comes the Varsity at 7PM to get warmed up.  The crew said, "Sorry coach.  You get us for 3 hours.  We can't help it that you chose to use us for the freshman and JV to take up those 3 hours."   Pont being, 3 hours should be plenty.  Especially if you're not getting paid to be there, when it's time to go, it's time to go.  4 1/2 hours is excessive and ridiculous. 
5.  Another thing I see from chapters is the way they go about "assigning" scrimmages or letting officials pick their scrimmages.  I'm all for letting officials pick their scrimmage.  But once a scrimmage is filled with no more than 7-8 officials there does not need to be any more officials assigned to that scrimmage until all other scrimmages are filled.  What good does it do to send 15 officials to a field and then only four officials to another field that starts at the same time but just 15 minutes further away.  It may be convenient for officials to all want to go to the "local stadium".  But when there are scrimmages needing to be filled that are merely 15-20 minutes further away, there needs to be a distribution. 




Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2024, 01:24:48 PM »
We work the game comp, with our chapter using the $$$ recieved from the schools ( 3 game fees)to rent a big ole' fancy (with toliet & VCRs) bus to carry us to our state meeting - about 90 miles away. Sorta' like our ole'
school days, the bus has several pick-up spots so few have to drive much. We stand eagerly by with our 'lunch' pails (mostly the liquid variety) waiting for it to arrive. While our scrimmages are requred as a mechanics meeting, it serves as an enjoyable way to prepare for the season. I always work one nearby our lakeside cottage, and invite the crew down for a cookout/ boat ride after its conclusion.

Maine and Texas are a long way apart, but sometimes doing something for the fun of it is pay enough.

 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2024, 01:55:58 PM »
We work the game comp, with our chapter using the $$$ recieved from the schools ( 3 game fees)to rent a big ole' fancy (with toliet & VCRs) bus to carry us to our state meeting - about 90 miles away. Sorta' like our ole'
school days, the bus has several pick-up spots so few have to drive much. We stand eagerly by with our 'lunch' pails (mostly the liquid variety) waiting for it to arrive. While our scrimmages are requred as a mechanics meeting, it serves as an enjoyable way to prepare for the season. I always work one nearby our lakeside cottage, and invite the crew down for a cookout/ boat ride after its conclusion.

Maine and Texas are a long way apart, but sometimes doing something for the fun of it is pay enough.

That sounds amazing, Ralph!  The biggest difference is, scrimmages are always when Hell has relocated to Texas for a summer vacation. They can be rough health-wise, if not dangerous, if you aren't prepared.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2024, 02:38:43 PM by dammitbobby »

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2024, 02:30:16 PM »
That sounds amazing, Ralph!  The biggest difference is, scrimmages are always when Hell has relocated to Texas for a summer vacation. They can be rough wealth-wise, if not dangerous, if you aren't prepared.

If we can just swap baseball and football seasons, we'd have it made.

Online ElvisLives

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2024, 02:58:22 PM »
I always work one nearby our lakeside cottage, and invite the crew down for a cookout/ boat ride after its conclusion.

Try not to make the news: OLD FAT GUYS GET ARRESTED FOR ARGUING WITH FULL-TIME PARK RANGER/PART TIME FOOTBALL COACH WHEN RANGER STOPS BOAT ON WATER FOR SAFETY CHECK AND NO ONE HAS LIFE VEST, BUT PLENTY OF BEER”.

Offline Ralph Damren

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2024, 12:22:01 PM »
Try not to make the news: OLD FAT GUYS GET ARRESTED FOR ARGUING WITH FULL-TIME PARK RANGER/PART TIME FOOTBALL COACH WHEN RANGER STOPS BOAT ON WATER FOR SAFETY CHECK AND NO ONE HAS LIFE VEST, BUT PLENTY OF BEER”.
We have a 20' 'party barge' with plenty of lifevests stored somewhere on board. We also have plenty of beer, my wife pilots our vessel and stays sober.

More can be learned by watching NORTH WOODS LAW.  P_S

Offline HOULJ

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2024, 03:37:00 PM »
I can asssure you that is not the case for the Houston Chapter.

There was actually school in Houston that called sub varsity on one day and varsity on another.
That seemed to cause some problems with coverage also.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2025, 09:01:10 PM »
Raising this thread up again, as a reminder for those working/billing scrimmages.

Offline JasonTX

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2025, 10:56:01 PM »
Raising this thread up again, as a reminder for those working/billing scrimmages.

I will email you some examples of scrimmage scenarios and how much to charge.

Offline Cosmokramer1

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2025, 09:10:34 AM »
IMO, there needs to be a restructuring of the scrimmage fee system.  As others have previously mentioned, scrimmages are very important for officials to work to knock the rust off and, more importantly, use as a training ground for new officials.  But it has become a lot to ask for officials to do it for free and not even have any guaranteed mileage reimbursement.  I say guaranteed because schools are not required to pay mileage, even though they should.  Especially when there's an ask for officials to travel 200 miles round trip at times. 

The chapter scrimmage fee was established approximately 15-20 years ago to provide chapters an additional source of revenue in which the funds were to be used for recruitment, training and retention.   This all started out good because back then it was expensive for local chapters to provide adequate mechanics manuals, training systems and recruitment advertising space.  But technology and processes have changed so now I see the scrimmage revenue used by chapters to fund chapter officer stipends (mainly assigners) and other chapter incurred expenses.  Very little used for the original purpose of recruitment and training.  Maybe to pay for a subscription to Hudl, at best. 

With all that said, I believe there could be an easy way to modify the scrimmage fee system where the schools paid the officials directly for a scrimmage fee and mileage and also paid the chapter a portion.   There would need to be a maximum limit set so schools can budget.  Officials certainly do not need to be paid a full game fee but, again, a small amount to help offset their own costs.  Especially for the rookies who are just getting started and need to start recouping some of their invested expenses.   My recommendation, pay the chapter $75 per scrimmage scheduled and $30/official for 1-6 officials then $20/official for 7-10 officials.  If the scrimmage location is greater than 50 miles round trip, additional mileage should be considered.  However, chapters need to cap the number of officials assigned a scrimmage.  There's no reason for a scrimmage to have more than 10 officials on-site, only to have guys standing around most of the scrimmage.  The only exception would be if the scrimmage is being used to train numerous rookies at each position.  But for any official that shows up, works 5 plays, and then leaves, they do not deserve any compensation or reimbursement. 


Online oldtimerref

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Re: Scrimmage fees
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2025, 08:30:39 AM »
In the 1970s and 1980s we worked one to two scrimmages in the Houston area with hardly even a thank you. Boy have times really changed and without a doubt for the better!!!