Scrimmage Kick Play

[NVFOA_Ump]

K has just punted and the kick is bouncing along the ground headed into the EZ with no R players in the area.  A team K gunner grabs the ball at about the 1-yard line on the dead run and carries it into the EZ.  What do we have?

[Ralph Damren]

Ball is dead once scrimmage kick is possessed by K. No Mo' on K carrying ball into EZ. R's ball at one.

[NVFOA_Ump]

So we're rulling that K has possession and control prior to breaking the plane of the EZ?

[dch]

if that's what happened then that's what happened.

[NVFOA_Ump]

if that's what happened then that's what happened.

So although all codes require that a "possession and control" ruling require that a player to become a runner must maintain control of the ball THROUGH at least his next step, in this case where his very "next step" is clearly in the EZ were ruling that the spot (possession and control) is at the 1?  That's a clear conflict with the rules regarding the exact same ruling if that player was a pass receiver scoring a TD.  How do we reconcile that conflict?  I guess that it's good that I'm the R or the U and don't need to make this call.

[Derek Teigen]

Look at this play another way suppose K possesses the ball at the R30 and starts running towards R's end zone.  We would blow the play dead as soon as K possessed the ball and R would put the ball in play where K possessed the ball or the spot of 1st touching, whichever would be more advantageous for R.

Scenario described the ball, becomes dead when K possesses the ball at the one yard line.  They can carry a dead ball into the end zone, but the ball is just that it's dead and so no touchback

[NVFOA_Ump]

Look at this play another way suppose K possesses the ball at the R30 and starts running towards R's end zone.  We would blow the play dead as soon as K possessed the ball and R would put the ball in play where K possessed the ball or the spot of 1st touching, whichever would be more advantageous for R.

Scenario described the ball, becomes dead when K possesses the ball at the one yard line.  They can carry a dead ball into the end zone, but the ball is just that it's dead and so no touchback

Not "another way" as the question is can possession and control be defined by where he first touches the ball?  Than's a serious stretch as the "other codes" would call this a touchback.

[Derek Teigen]

my understanding is the momentum rule is only for defensive players, no A or K players.  so there's that.

otherwise, as a backjudge we would be on the goal line (hopefully) and you would be able to discern first touching vs possession and in the case you described they are at the same spot, which is the one yard line. 

[GoodScout]

I think unless it was 100% clear that K possessed the ball prior to it crossing into the EZ, I'd just put the ball on the 20 and be done with it.

[NVFOA_Ump]

my understanding is the momentum rule is only for defensive players, no A or K players.  so there's that.

otherwise, as a backjudge we would be on the goal line (hopefully) and you would be able to discern first touching vs possession and in the case you described they are at the same spot, which is the one yard line.

This is not a momentum rule question.  This is a question as to when in our judgment can we determine the K player actually has possession and control.  If he first touches the ball as both he and the ball are crossing the 1 yard line, then I've got a touchback since there's no way he's met the possession and control criteria.  That being said, as the R or the U where I work these days that's not my call.   

[Ralph Damren]

2-34 POSSESSION

ART. 1 :   A ball in player possession is a live ball helf or controlled by a player afterit has been handed or snapped to him,or after he has caught or recovered it.

[dammitbobby]

A related question was on the CFO test this year, discussed here:  https://www.refstripes.com/forum/index.php?topic=17028.0

While it won't give a definitive answer to this specific scenario, it does have good information and context.

[KDJBBBJ]

Is there s difference if you apply it to the sideline instead of the endzone? One foot down with control of the ball but goes to the ground you don't have a completion until he shows control through the ground. 

[CalhounLJ]

Is there s difference if you apply it to the sideline instead of the endzone? One foot down with control of the ball but goes to the ground you don't have a completion until he shows control through the ground.

We've had that discussion on here before. I've never read this description of a catch in the NFHS rulebook.