Roughing the kicker

[bossman72]

Lively discussion from our high school meeting last week.

Team A attempts a field goal.  B1 dives to block the kick from the edge, but misses and knocks the kicker over.  At about the same time he hits the kicker, the kick is blocked at the LOS by B99.

Foul?

[Ralph Damren]

Rule 9-4-5b seems to say "

































































Rule 94-5-b sez' : " The defense touches the kick neer the kicker and contact is  unavoidable." Backup is supplied by Case 9.4.5A. my interp is unless it was unnecessarily rough, hold your flag

[Fatso]

Lively discussion from our high school meeting last week.

Team A attempts a field goal.  B1 dives to block the kick from the edge, but misses and knocks the kicker over.  At about the same time he hits the kicker, the kick is blocked at the LOS by B99.

Foul?

Hi Bossman, unless I'm missing something, this is clearly roughing the kicker.  What is the argument opposing roughing call? 

[Fatso]

Rule 9-4-5b seems to say "
Rule 94-5-b sez' : " The defense touches the kick neer the kicker and contact is  unavoidable." Backup is supplied by Case 9.4.5A. my interp is unless it was unnecessarily rough, hold your flag

Ralph - doesn't the "defense touches kick near the kicker" mean essentially if the defender gets a piece of the ball and then hits kicker?

I wouldn't consider a block at the LOS as being "near the kicker".  That's 7 yards away.......

[Ralph Damren]

Ralph - doesn't the "defense touches kick near the kicker" mean essentially if the defender gets a piece of the ball and then hits kicker?

I wouldn't consider a block at the LOS as being "near the kicker".  That's 7 yards away.......

In case 9.4.5A ,it states "....The rule does not specify that only the player who touches the kick is excused from contacting the kicker/holder, rather it states 'when the defense touches...' (9-4-5b)"

I'm from the ole' school that feels don't throw a flag if ye are not sure. Sorta' like our justice system:"Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"
At our cottage, the mail box is more than one mile away....that's not 'near'. 
At our home, our mail box is about 10 yards away....that's 'near' 

[lawdog]

That's roughing.  His contact has nothing to do with the block/touch which is seven yards away.

[Fatso]

In case 9.4.5A ,it states "....The rule does not specify that only the player who touches the kick is excused from contacting the kicker/holder, rather it states 'when the defense touches...' (9-4-5b)"

I'm from the ole' school that feels don't throw a flag if ye are not sure. Sorta' like our justice system:"Guilty beyond a reasonable doubt"
At our cottage, the mail box is more than one mile away....that's not 'near'. 
At our home, our mail box is about 10 yards away....that's 'near' 

I hear ya but I've always kinda thought you need to get a piece of the ball in order to get away with roughing the kicker.  Someone blocking the kick at the LOS seems like a stretch to let the roughing go.....

Good question and discussion though...

[NVFOA_Ump]

All the interpretations that I've ever seen are 100% consistent with "the player who runs into the kicker MUST touch the ball to avoid a flag".  A tip/block at the LOS doesn't absolve the contact with the kicker.

[Ralph Damren]

Sorry guys, but I stand by the quote from Case 9.4.5A.
   I also stand by the fact that someday the Patriots will win another game. 

[bama_stripes]

Sorry guys, but I stand by the quote from Case 9.4.5A.
   I also stand by the fact that someday the Patriots will win another game. 

“In any situation, if the defense is to be excused for contacting the kicker/holder as a result of touching the kick, the ball must be touched near the spot of the kick.”

I believe most R’s would not consider action 7 or 10 yards away to be “near”.  I also don’t believe that many defensive coaches would argue with a flag for RTK.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Sorry guys, but I stand by the quote from Case 9.4.5A.
   I also stand by the fact that someday the Patriots will win another game. 

Just take a careful read of the entire case book play 9.4.5a.  I believe that it's pretty clear and discusses two defenders who basically meet at the kicker and one gets the ball and one gets the kicker.  It's not referencing a LOS block to absolve a rusher from RTK.

[ElvisLives]

Lively discussion from our high school meeting last week.

Team A attempts a field goal.  B1 dives to block the kick from the edge, but misses and knocks the kicker over.  At about the same time he hits the kicker, the kick is blocked at the LOS by B99.

Foul?

Does the rule say anything about roughing not applying if the kick is blocked by another player? Is the definition of a kicker a player that legally kicks the ball? Does the roughing the kicker rule say that no opponent shall run into or rough the kicker or holder?

Pretty sure it is a foul even if the kick is blocked by someone other than the player that contacts the kicker/holder.

[NVFOA_Ump]

Does the rule say anything about roughing not applying if the kick is blocked by another player? Is the definition of a kicker a player that legally kicks the ball? Does the roughing the kicker rule say that no opponent shall run into or rough the kicker or holder?

Pretty sure it is a foul even if the kick is blocked by someone other than the player that contacts the kicker/holder.

Here's the referenced Case Book Play.

[ElvisLives]

Markedly different than other rule sets, so be sure you know the rule set you are working.

[bama_stripes]

Sorry guys, but I stand by the quote from Case 9.4.5A.
   I also stand by the fact that someday the Patriots will win another game. 

Confucius say:  “When it’s you against the world, bet on the world.”

[Ralph Damren]

Confucius say:  “When it’s you against the world, bet on the world.”

I hear you guys, I jguess it all depends on what we consider 'near'

[bossman72]

Markedly different than other rule sets, so be sure you know the rule set you are working.

One of the few cases where I like the NFHS rule better!  When 2 players are around the kicker when it gets blocked, it's tough to judge who actually touched it sometimes.

[NVFOA_Ump]

One of the few cases where I like the NFHS rule better!  When 2 players are around the kicker when it gets blocked, it's tough to judge who actually touched it sometimes.