The groundhog saw his shadow yesterday...the new rules are here today....

[sj]

Also on this, if the pass is intercepted by a B player in the B end zone who then fumbles from the end zone, where it goes forward into the field of play, and goes out of bounds, then the ball would be returned to the spot of the fumble and it would be a touchback.

[bama_stripes]

I agree with ncwingman that a forward fumble OOB is rare — I think I’ve seen it once in the last three years.  A fumble going forward from the EZ and OOB in the field of play is certainly even more rare.  I’ve never had that happen in one of my games.

Ralph, are you able to post the proposals that actually came up for a vote and didn’t pass as you have in the past?

[ElvisLives]

I agree with ncwingman that a forward fumble OOB is rare — I think I’ve seen it once in the last three years.  A fumble going forward from the EZ and OOB in the field of play is certainly even more rare.  I’ve never had that happen in one of my games.

No, not rare at all. We see it in our HS games probably a half-dozen times per year, and I see it in TV (NCAA) games about as many times. When I see it on TV games, I am verbalizing, “Bring it back to the spot of the fumble!” And they always do. As R, I don’t, personally, see the ball go OB, but my crew gets on the O2O and lets me know, and we bring it back to the spot of the fumble, and I start the game clock when it is spotted (with a short sound of my whistle  ).

Yeah, fumble from the EZ OOB in the field of play - rare. Fumble from the EZ OOB in the field of play WITH momentum - rarest of rare. Never had either of those.

[Ralph Damren]

I agree with ncwingman that a forward fumble OOB is rare — I think I’ve seen it once in the last three years.  A fumble going forward from the EZ and OOB in the field of play is certainly even more rare.  I’ve never had that happen in one of my games.

Ralph, are you able to post the proposals that actually came up for a vote and didn’t pass as you have in the past?

There were two that made it to the floor but didn't pass. They were:

7-2-5d  "At the snap,if team A is in SKF, any team B player on the line of scrimmage must be aligmned completely outside the frame of the body of the the snapper,"  Failed 9-41, my biggest grape was keeping B player  over snapper to leap in attempt to block FG.

7-5-2e  "A forward pass thrown from behind the neutral zone after the ball has been beyond the neutral zone." =IFP. Failed 19-31, my biggest gripe was it could make a flea-flicker illegal.

Rule 2 & 7 for six-player also passed. It clarifies that as long as there is a change of possession from the snap receiver to another player of , the ball can be advanced beyond the LOS. I sat next to a guy from a 6-player state. He voted yes, I voted yes ,too.  .  It passed 50-0.

[ncwingman]

I agree with ncwingman that a forward fumble OOB is rare — I think I’ve seen it once in the last three years.  A fumble going forward from the EZ and OOB in the field of play is certainly even more rare.  I’ve never had that happen in one of my games.

Ralph, are you able to post the proposals that actually came up for a vote and didn’t pass as you have in the past?

It's probably less rare than we think, but rare that it has a significant impact. Last year, I had a play where a player managed to fumble forward OOB for a first down. I think that was the first time I'd seen that happen, but it was particularly notable because he fumbled it beyond the LTG. Every other time I can think of it potentially happening, it's either a very small difference gaining a yard or so (next play is 3rd and 6 instead of 3rd and 7) or it's in the middle of a muff scrum and ends up out of bounds before anybody gains possession, and you're more focused on somebody possessing the ball rather than keeping track of how far the ball went while loose (especially since, until now, that didn't matter).

The next Coach Complaint I'm expecting is to enforce this like the Holy Roller -- returning the ball to the spot of the fumble when recovered by A in advance of the fumble. That happens quite a bit, but I've never seen that done intentionally. However, since it's what they do on TV, I'd give it another two years.

[ElvisLives]

Again, maybe rare, but they happen. Just last season, I had a fumble recovered not only beyond the spot of the fumble, but by a player other than the fumbler, and during a Try. My wing didn’t really recognize what was happening, and allowed the BC to advance the ball into the end zone, and signaled TD. I had to immediately, and emphatically, rule NO SCORE. No field mic, or even radios. I got my wings to come in, reviewed the play and the ruling, and the light bulb went off in their heads, and were, then, to explain the ruling to their coaches.
They happen, and we must be prepared to make the proper ruling for our rule set.

[Snapper]

Again, maybe rare, but they happen. Just last season, I had a fumble recovered not only beyond the spot of the fumble, but by a player other than the fumbler, and during a Try. My wing didn’t really recognize what was happening, and allowed the BC to advance the ball into the end zone, and signaled TD. I had to immediately, and emphatically, rule NO SCORE. No field mic, or even radios. I got my wings to come in, reviewed the play and the ruling, and the light bulb went off in their heads, and were, then, to explain the ruling to their coaches.
They happen, and we must be prepared to make the proper ruling for our rule set.

Agreed, rare.  And real good job getting it.

But let's be careful not to confuse anyone.  The 4th down fumble rule (and the fumble during a Try rule) are NCAA, and as I understand it, the NFHS did not enact that. 

They simply passed the fumble forward oob rule.  And that's real easy to officiate.  Just get a bag down as best you can.  And then remember to wind the clock back up afterwards.  If you have a field mic, be sure to announce what's going on with the fumble.  People will get it because they're used to seeing it on Saturday.

[SCHSref]

Again, maybe rare, but they happen. Just last season, I had a fumble recovered not only beyond the spot of the fumble, but by a player other than the fumbler, and during a Try. My wing didn’t really recognize what was happening, and allowed the BC to advance the ball into the end zone, and signaled TD. I had to immediately, and emphatically, rule NO SCORE. No field mic, or even radios. I got my wings to come in, reviewed the play and the ruling, and the light bulb went off in their heads, and were, then, to explain the ruling to their coaches.
They happen, and we must be prepared to make the proper ruling for our rule set.

Was this during a HS game?

[MAFBRef]

Texas uses modified NCAA Rules in high school.

[bama_stripes]

B26 intercepts A14’s pass at the B-4 yardline.  His momentum takes him into the EZ, where he is hit and fumbles.  The fumble goes OOB at the B-2 yardline.

Ruling?

[NVFOA_Ump]

B26 intercepts A14’s pass at the B-4 yardline.  His momentum takes him into the EZ, where he is hit and fumbles.  The fumble goes OOB at the B-2 yardline.

Ruling?

Since the ball did not become dead in the EZ the momentum exception rule does not apply.  We have a loose ball OB in team B possession at the B-2 yard line.  I've got 1st & 10 for B at the B-2.

[bossman72]

Since the ball did not become dead in the EZ the momentum exception rule does not apply.  We have a loose ball OB in team B possession at the B-2 yard line.  I've got 1st & 10 for B at the B-2.

With the new rule, the ball goes back to the spot of the fumble.  So B2 is incorrect.

NCAA treats this as if the ball never left the end zone.  So this would be momentum.  B 1/10 @ B4.

I'm sure the FED editorial committee will come up with a dumber ruling.

[Ralph Damren]

Reading the Mo' Rule (8-5-2a EXCEPTION) : ".....where the ball remains in the end zoneand is declared dead in the end zone in his team's possession OR it goes out of bounds IN THE ENDZONE..."; my interp with our new rule if the fumble went OOB in the field of play, Mo' would apply. Have a call into NFHS to get the approved ruling.

[Ralph Damren]

Was just informed that the Case Book is at the printers with several situations involving our new rule including our Mo' question.

[SCHSref]

B26 intercepts A14’s pass at the B-4 yardline.  His momentum takes him into the EZ, where he is hit and fumbles.  The fumble goes OOB at the B-2 yardline.

Ruling?

Add a PF which caused on the runner, which contributed to the fumble…now it’s getting better

[SCHSref]

With the new rule, the ball goes back to the spot of the fumble.  So B2 is incorrect.

Cheap way to get a safety…which rule will override the other one?  Or…an exception to the exception

[ElvisLives]

Cheap way to get a safety…which rule will override the other one?  Or…an exception to the exception

If it follows the NCAA rule, momentum put the BC into the end zone, so the defending team gets the ball at the spot of possession in the field of play (the B-4, in this case). No cheap safety.

[NVFOA_Ump]

This has been discussed over the last few weeks due to the new "the ball goes back to the spot of the fumble when ball is fumbled forward".  Have had lots of opinions but the most prevalent one has been that we would have some form of exception here to use DB spot (B-2).  Other options is an "exception" to use NCAA version (momentum exception).  Still no formal word out of NFHS that we can find but looking like Ralph has the answer?   

[Ralph Damren]

This has been discussed over the last few weeks due to the new "the ball goes back to the spot of the fumble when ball is fumbled forward".  Have had lots of opinions but the most prevalent one has been that we would have some form of exception here to use DB spot (B-2).  Other options is an "exception" to use NCAA version (momentum exception).  Still no formal word out of NFHS that we can find but looking like Ralph has the answer?   

NOPE  , no answer here  . I was told that there would be a bevy of case plays covering all situations. Case Books should e out shortly. By  Flag Day  (6/14) we should have needed answers. We have the Lobster Bowl ,featuring graduated seniors, every July. We always play that by last year's rules.

[sj]

B26 intercepts A14’s pass at the B-4 yardline.  His momentum takes him into the EZ, where he is hit and fumbles.  The fumble goes OOB at the B-2 yardline.

Ruling?

The new Redding's has this as a Safety. Both of these are new additions so are highlighted in gray.

From page 124 - "K13's kick is caught by R18 at the R-3. His original momentum takes him into his end zone where he is hit and fumbles. The ball rolls out of bounds at the R-2.

Ruling: Safety. Although the ball is returned to the spot of the fumble and declared dead there, the ball did not remain behind the goal line.

On page 24 he notes that the Momentum would be off because the ball didn't remain in the end zone.

[dammitbobby]

With the new rule, the ball goes back to the spot of the fumble.  So B2 is incorrect.

NCAA treats this as if the ball never left the end zone.  So this would be momentum.  B 1/10 @ B4.

I'm sure the FED editorial committee will come up with a dumber ruling.

[bama_stripes]

I can see a logical argument for both sides:

(1). B could have simply taken a knee in the EZ and been awarded the ball at the B-3.  He chose to try to advance, and fumbled.  Since the ball left the EZ, momentum is off and the result is a safety.

(2)  By the new rule, the ball is returned to the spot of the fumble and declared dead there in player possession.  The momentum rule applies and B is awarded the ball at the B-3.

I’m in favor of #2.

[bama_stripes]

From the Facebook group:
“Just received a 2025 Federation Rule Book.  The forward fumble out of bounds rule change includes a modification to the 8-5-2a Exception - the momentum exception.

The following sentence has been added at the end of the 8-5-2a Exception paragraph....

This includes a fumble that goes from the end zone into the field of play and out of bounds.  (4-3-1 Exception). 

It appears that the added language clarifies that the momentum exception continues to apply if the ball is fumble from the end zone into the field of play and out of bounds after being carried into the end zone under the momentum exception.

B/R would get possession at the momentum spot (as if the ball had never been out of the end zone).  The result of the play would NOT be a safety.”