KCI and 10-2-2

[jpresler.adm]

K is in scrimmage kick formation. K99 kicks the ball high and R1 is at the R-40 ready to catch the kick. K88 runs up and is directly in front of R10 causing R10 to shift his positioning as he tries to catch the kick. The kick bounces off K88’s helmet. R2 recovers the ball at the R-30 and he runs to the K-37, where he is tackled by A98 by the facemask, causing a fumble. During the run by R2, R3 blocked K99 in the back at the K-40. R1 falls on the ball at the K-35.

What is your enforcement?
Does the penalty statement for KCI affect this play(awarded fair catch)?
Can we use 10-2-2 for R to keep the ball after enforcement of the BIB?

[bama_stripes]

(n/m)

[SCHSref]

Edit...upon further review, we are replaying the down...unless I'm wrong about what is in the rulebook...10-2-1c

[jpresler.adm]

I lean that way, but since we have live ball fouls by both, does 10-2-2 take precedence over the penalty statement of KCI? If we have any other foul by K on this(ie a holding foul) then I think we can go with declining all K fouls and enforcing the R foul with the related run, making it R 1/10 R-50 Snap 25. The language of 'awarded' fair catch is causing me to rethink(or overthink this)

6-5-6 . . .  While any free kick is in flight in or beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line or any scrimmage kick is in flight beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line, K shall not:
a. Touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R, or to ward off a blocker; or
b. Obstruct R's path to the ball. This prohibition applies even when no fair-catch signal is given, but it does not apply after a free kick has been touched by a receiver, or after a scrimmage kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching.

PENALTY: Art. 6 – kick-catching interference – (S33) – R may accept the results of the play, an awarded fair catch after enforcement of a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the fou, or a 15-yard penalty from the previous spot and a replay of the down

10-2-2 . . .  If each team fouls during a down in which there is a change of team possession and the play does not have a post-scrimmage kick foul, the team last gaining possession may retain the ball, provided:
a. The foul by the team last gaining possession is not prior to the final change of possession, and
b. The team last gaining possession declines the penalty for its opponent's foul(s), other than a nonplayer or unsportsmanlike foul.

In this case, the team that was not last in possession has no penalty options until the team last in possession has made its penalty decision on the fouls prior to the change of possession. After that decision by the team last in possession, the team not last in possession may decline or accept the penalty for the foul by the team last in possession or choose which penalty to have enforced in the case that the team last in possession committed more than one foul following the change.

[VALJ]

R got the ball with clean hands, R’s foul is not a PSK foul, and R ended the down in possession of the ball, so they can keep the ball by declining the foul for the KCI.  Their foul would then be enforced from the spot of the foul, since it is behind the end of the related run. 10-2-2.  What the penalty would be has no bearing on the effect of accepting the foul.

If R chooses to accept the KCI foul, we have a double foul and the down will be replayed.  10-2-1-c.

[Fatso]

R got the ball with clean hands, R’s foul is not a PSK foul, and R ended the down in possession of the ball, so they can keep the ball by declining the foul for the KCI.  Their foul would then be enforced from the spot of the foul, since it is behind the end of the related run. 10-2-2.  What the penalty would be has no bearing on the effect of accepting the foul.

If R chooses to accept the KCI foul, we have a double foul and the down will be replayed.  10-2-1-c.

I'm with VALJ on this one.

[Ralph Damren]

VALJ RESPONSE = 

NON-FOOTBALL TRIVIA....

Oot of the 13 0riginal colonies, how many states were formed  (5-man crew)

[GA Umpire]

VALJ RESPONSE = 

NON-FOOTBALL TRIVIA....

Oot of the 13 0riginal colonies, how many states were formed  (5-man crew)

I'll try.

Three, if you count West Virginia and Vermont.  Maine was part of Mass, and the first.

Ralph, are you referring to the claims of all the colonies that their colonies stretched all the way to the Mississippi and beyond?
If so, then it is many more than three.

[Ralph Damren]

Thanks for trying, GA Ump, I was referencing the original 13 colonies which then became 10 states AND 3 commonwealths.

As the llegend goes.....

When the Continental Congress met to decllare independence, they felt they shouldn't be called colonies anymore as that depicts that somebody owns them. Ten chose to be called states. Eariler in the 18th century a British scholar had proclaimed : " England should be ruled by commonwealth of people AND not a crazy king  " King George didn't take kindly to that and the scholar's head was displayed on a stick in front of his castle.  . Massachusetts, Virginia, and Pennsylvania were the three most rabble-rousing colonies and declaired....

WE SHALL BE CALLED COMMONWEALTHS 

...AND NOW YOU KNOW THE REST OF THE STORY....I THINK

[KDJBBBJ]

I lean that way, but since we have live ball fouls by both, does 10-2-2 take precedence over the penalty statement of KCI? If we have any other foul by K on this(ie a holding foul) then I think we can go with declining all K fouls and enforcing the R foul with the related run, making it R 1/10 R-50 Snap 25. The language of 'awarded' fair catch is causing me to rethink(or overthink this)

6-5-6 . . .  While any free kick is in flight in or beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line or any scrimmage kick is in flight beyond the neutral zone to the receiver's goal line, K shall not:
a. Touch the ball or R, unless blocked into the ball or R, or to ward off a blocker; or
b. Obstruct R's path to the ball. This prohibition applies even when no fair-catch signal is given, but it does not apply after a free kick has been touched by a receiver, or after a scrimmage kick has been touched by a receiver who was clearly beyond the neutral zone at the time of touching.

PENALTY: Art. 6 – kick-catching interference – (S33) – R may accept the results of the play, an awarded fair catch after enforcement of a 15-yard penalty from the spot of the fou, or a 15-yard penalty from the previous spot and a replay of the down

10-2-2 . . .  If each team fouls during a down in which there is a change of team possession and the play does not have a post-scrimmage kick foul, the team last gaining possession may retain the ball, provided:
a. The foul by the team last gaining possession is not prior to the final change of possession, and
b. The team last gaining possession declines the penalty for its opponent's foul(s), other than a nonplayer or unsportsmanlike foul.

In this case, the team that was not last in possession has no penalty options until the team last in possession has made its penalty decision on the fouls prior to the change of possession. After that decision by the team last in possession, the team not last in possession may decline or accept the penalty for the foul by the team last in possession or choose which penalty to have enforced in the case that the team last in possession committed more than one foul following the change.

What about the facemask penalty on K?  Would they have to decline that one also?

[Fatso]

What about the facemask penalty on K?  Would they have to decline that one also?

Yes. If R accepts either of K's fouls, the down would need to be replayed. By declining K's fouls, R can keep the ball after 10 yd block in back penalty from the spot of foul (because it's behind end of run).  1/10 for R at the 50.