What the French toast???

[SCHSref]

The rule book states illegal batting is from the spot. However, consider these 2 situations:

Scenario 1
Free kick from K 40. The kick goes high in the air and hits near R 10 sideline and bounces. R23 sees K approaching fast and bats the ball directly sideways out of bounds at the R 10.     According to the rulebook, this is a spot foul. However, fouls by R during a free kick are previous spot fouls, so why are we going from the spot? If you say, "It's because of illegal batting, here is another scenario

Scenario 2
3/10 from the 50. A12 takes the snap and scrambles to find an open receiver, he then takes off running and gets to the B18, where he is legally hit and fumbles the ball toward the B's goal line. A88 muffs the ball at the B6 into the end zone, where B8, 8 yards deep in the end zone, bats the ball forward and out of the EZ.

This is supposed to the a spot foul? If so, how does that make sense? A put it in the end zone and now B has the ball because they committed a foul in the EZ?

[dammitbobby]

In the first scenario, are you sure you have illegal batting?  I work NCAA (Texas) so rules are different but I bet a lot are the same... for us this would only be a foul if the ball went forward in the field of play (c.   No player shall bat other loose balls forward in the field of play or in any direction if the ball is in the end zone'); I'm not calling a ball batted sideways, forward. All he did was add force the to ball IMO.

For the second scenario - wouldn't that be a safety? The ball went out of the end zone, and it was B who made it so... shouldn't matter if it was batted IN the end zone, or at the 3 yard line - it is B's fault.

Apologies if I'm way off. Our section has not yet had a lot of activity recently .

[Whodatboy18]

Where does it say that batting is from the spot? I just see where it says 10 yard penalty.

Bobby, you are correct, the first scenario is legal batting as it is not forward. It would be K's ball at the out of bounds spot. If he batted it forwards out of bounds, the only enforcement spot for a B foul during a free kick is the previous spot and re-kick, at least per NCAA.

The second scenario, the result of the play is not clear. My understanding is that the ball is batted from the end zone by team B back into the field of play and out of bounds. The other scenario is that the ball is batted from the End zone out of bounds behind the endline. Either way you have illegal batting in the EZ. But lets look at both scenarios.

The impetus for the ball being in the endzone is the fumble by A12. The muff by A88 does not add impetus as it is a muff. Team B's bat means nothign in regards to why the ball is in the endzone.

First Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds at some yardline. Team A will accept the penalty and enforce the penalty half the distance from the the end of the related run, B18. If they declined, the ball would go to the out of bounds spot, if behind the spot of the fumble, or to the spot of the fumble if the fumble would be forward out of bounds.

Second Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds beyond the endline resulting in a touchback. Team A must accept the penalty to keep the ball, which they will enforce half the distance from the end of the related run, the B18.

[SCHSref]

Where does it say that batting is from the spot? I just see where it says 10 yard penalty.

Bobby, you are correct, the first scenario is legal batting as it is not forward. It would be K's ball at the out of bounds spot. If he batted it forwards out of bounds, the only enforcement spot for a B foul during a free kick is the previous spot and re-kick, at least per NCAA.

The second scenario, the result of the play is not clear. My understanding is that the ball is batted from the end zone by team B back into the field of play and out of bounds. The other scenario is that the ball is batted from the End zone out of bounds behind the endline. Either way you have illegal batting in the EZ. But lets look at both scenarios.

The impetus for the ball being in the endzone is the fumble by A12. The muff by A88 does not add impetus as it is a muff. Team B's bat means nothign in regards to why the ball is in the endzone.

First Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds at some yardline. Team A will accept the penalty and enforce the penalty half the distance from the the end of the related run, B18. If they declined, the ball would go to the out of bounds spot, if behind the spot of the fumble, or to the spot of the fumble if the fumble would be forward out of bounds.

Second Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds beyond the endline resulting in a touchback. Team A must accept the penalty to keep the ball, which they will enforce half the distance from the end of the related run, the B18.

10-4-4a for spot of the foul

A new force can be added via a bat. 2-13-1

In the first scenario, there is no fumble. It was a grounded kick and R batted the ball out of bounds. Technically, it is still a kick since the kick never ended in the field of play.  In the second scenario, the ball is 8 yards deep in the end zone when B bats it forward and past the end line. What B did is an illegal bat. It says the basic spot is the spot of the foul for illegal batting, according to the rule book. However, this doesn't make any sense, at least not in this scenario. I agree that the panlty must be enforced from the end of the run/related run, but that goes against what the rulebook states.

[dammitbobby]

Where does it say that batting is from the spot? I just see where it says 10 yard penalty.

Bobby, you are correct, the first scenario is legal batting as it is not forward. It would be K's ball at the out of bounds spot. If he batted it forwards out of bounds, the only enforcement spot for a B foul during a free kick is the previous spot and re-kick, at least per NCAA.

The second scenario, the result of the play is not clear. My understanding is that the ball is batted from the end zone by team B back into the field of play and out of bounds. The other scenario is that the ball is batted from the End zone out of bounds behind the endline. Either way you have illegal batting in the EZ. But lets look at both scenarios.

The impetus for the ball being in the endzone is the fumble by A12. The muff by A88 does not add impetus as it is a muff. Team B's bat means nothign in regards to why the ball is in the endzone.

First Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds at some yardline. Team A will accept the penalty and enforce the penalty half the distance from the the end of the related run, B18. If they declined, the ball would go to the out of bounds spot, if behind the spot of the fumble, or to the spot of the fumble if the fumble would be forward out of bounds.

Second Scenario: The result of the play is a fumble out of bounds beyond the endline resulting in a touchback. Team A must accept the penalty to keep the ball, which they will enforce half the distance from the end of the related run, the B18.

Not trying to threadjack, but why isn't this a safety? B added new impetus by batting the ball in the EZ (can't do that in any direction.) It's B's fault the ball went past the endline.

EDIT - created a topic in the Texas section to discuss

[Fatso]

Not trying to threadjack, but why isn't this a safety? B added new impetus by batting the ball in the EZ (can't do that in any direction.) It's B's fault the ball went past the endline

  New force only applies from field of play into endzone.  It's A's fault the ball is in the endzone is one way of looking at it.