Forward fumble through EZ with penalty enforcement

[dbrown]

The following scenario came up in a recent meeting, and I would love the guidance of more experienced officials than I.

A 1/10 at the B45. A-10 completes a pass to A-81 who runs toward the end zone. He is hit and fumbles the ball at the B5, and the ball rolls into and then through the back of the end zone out of bounds. (a) During the pass, B-41 roughs A-10. (b) During A-81’s run, B-24 blocks A-88 below the waist at the B-15.

The penalty statement for roughing the passer under 9-4-4 states that the enforcement is from the dead ball spot provided A has possession of the ball at the end of the down, so it would appear that the enforcement for a (a) would be from the previous spot since A does not maintain possession. Would the enforcement for (b) be different?  If so, why?

Thanks for all that contribute to this board. I learn so much here!

[Fatso]

a. assess from previous spot + auto first down. 1/10 at B30.  (foul occurred during loose ball play, so it's previous spot (or dead ball spot for roughing passer but that wouldn't be the choice here)

b. assess from end of run (spot of fumble).  1/2 distance, so it's 1st and goal at 2.5 yd line.  (foul occurred during the run, so it's end of run enforcement).

[dbrown]

Ok, so the previous spot enforcement is a special case because of the status of the play when the RTP foul occurs? Would the situation change if the RTP foul occurred after the pass was caught?

[Fatso]

Ok, so the previous spot enforcement is a special case because of the status of the play when the RTP foul occurs? Would the situation change if the RTP foul occurred after the pass was caught?

Correct, fouls that occur during the loose ball play (pass), it's previous spot.  If RTP was after the pass was caught, it would be during the run - end of run enforcement.  That situation would probably be Unnecessary Roughness rather than RTP because by the time the pass is caught, the QB would no longer be a passer.  You also wouldn't have the dead ball spot option if it's UNR rather than RTP.

[VALJ]

Ok, so the previous spot enforcement is a special case because of the status of the play when the RTP foul occurs? Would the situation change if the RTP foul occurred after the pass was caught?

As a point of order - by definition, once the pass is caught, we no longer have a passer to rough, so this would be a garden variety personal foul.

Now, by philosophy, if there’s any doubt as to whether the pass is still in the air, I’d rule RTP, but if the contact comes clearly after the ball is caught, we can’t have RTP at that point.

Great question, though!  Welcome to the forum!