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Offline WAofficial

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Basic spot
« on: August 19, 2025, 04:08:32 PM »
Free kick from K's 40.  R1 holds during the kick at R's 30.  R2 catches the kick at R's 10 and is tackled at R's 20.
If K accepts the penalty, what is the enforcement spot? And please include rule references.
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Online bossman72

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2025, 07:45:20 PM »
Previous spot.

Foul occurs during a loose ball play.  Basic spot is the previous spot.  Foul is by B/R beyond, so it's enforced from the basic spot.

Options are to rekick from the 50 or decline and R 1/10 @ R20.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2025, 08:09:09 AM by bossman72 »
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Offline Snapper

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2025, 09:59:43 PM »
Quote from: bossman72 on August 19, 2025, 07:45:20 PM
Previous spot.

Foul occurs during a loose ball play.  Basic spot is the previous spot.  Foul is by A/K beyond, so it's enforced from the basic spot.

Options are to rekick from the 30 or decline and R 1/10 @ R20.

I agree 100% with your ruling.  But since the OP asked for rule references, I was poking around a little for those references.

I’m not a Fed rules expert by any means.  I know that other code much better, but like to keep up somewhat with Fed so as to be a help to my local guys.

And I can’t decide tonight if I’m just missing the specific rule coverage regarding loose-ball play penalty enforcement.  Or if the “Editorial Committee” managed to delete it.

I do find statements about what to do re fouls behind the neutral zone during a loose-ball play.  But I don’t find any statements about fouls beyond the neutral zone during a loose-ball play.  Or if there is no neutral zone.

I mean, sure, we all know what to do.  But am I somehow missing the actual specific rules coverage regarding losse-ball play penalty enforcement?
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Offline dch

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2025, 11:04:31 AM »
Same situation for me.  I can't find the rule statement regarding the enforcement spot for fouls by either team if the foul is beyond the start of the play. hEaDbAnG
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Offline sj

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2025, 06:51:09 PM »
Old 10-4-2-b - The basic spot is the previous spot: b) for a foul which occurs during a loose ball play

New 10-4-2-b: The basic spot is the previous spot: b) for a foul which occurs behind the line of scrimmage during a loose ball play

For the first play in the thread it used to would have been the old 10-4-2-b. But because of the change made in 2024 it no longer relates to an R foul that occurs beyond the NZ during a free kick play. And nothing was put in or changed to cover that situation. Same deal with a penalty for defensive holding beyond the NZ which occurs during a loose ball play.

It doesn't seem they addressed it in the off-season so it's the same for 2025. But we know they didn't intend to change either of those enforcement's so in the original play here if the penalty is accepted it would be enforced from the previous spot.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2025, 09:54:50 AM by sj »
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Offline TLG22ref

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2025, 01:23:33 PM »
I agree basic spot is the previous spot, but the foul is on R so K will rekick from the 50.
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Offline dch

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2025, 02:38:53 PM »
Do we now use the terms "basic spot" and "enforcement spot" interchangeably?  Do they actually mean the same thing?
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Online bossman72

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2025, 11:16:29 PM »
Quote from: dch on August 21, 2025, 02:38:53 PM
Do we now use the terms "basic spot" and "enforcement spot" interchangeably?  Do they actually mean the same thing?

No, they don't mean the same thing.  However the NFHS editorial committee thinks it does.  It's incredibly confusing, especially with the changes the last few years.  Like when they say the basic spot is the spot of the foul.  How?  You're supposed to compare the foul to the basic spot to figure out what to do.  They can't be the same thing.
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Offline ilyazhito

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2025, 06:21:52 AM »
Quote from: bossman72 on August 19, 2025, 07:45:20 PM
Previous spot.

Foul occurs during a loose ball play.  Basic spot is the previous spot.  Foul is by A/K beyond, so it's enforced from the basic spot.

Options are to rekick from the 30 or decline and R 1/10 @ R20.
Didn't B foul in the OP? If so, A would kick from the 50, or B would put the ball in play from their own 20. 10-4-2-a is a foul simultaneous with a snap or free kick. B's action happened during the kick, and PSK is not an option for free kicks, so previous spot is the only valid option.
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Online bossman72

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Re: Basic spot
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2025, 08:08:36 AM »
Quote from: ilyazhito on August 22, 2025, 06:21:52 AM
Didn't B foul in the OP? If so, A would kick from the 50, or B would put the ball in play from their own 20. 10-4-2-a is a foul simultaneous with a snap or free kick. B's action happened during the kick, and PSK is not an option for free kicks, so previous spot is the only valid option.

Yes I went the wrong way.  Thank you.  I'll fix it.
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