Ineligibles Downfield or Not

[fudilligas]

.Having this discussion and can't seem to find the answer: QB scrambles... meeting all the requirements for legally grounding the ball... during the play, there are ineligible linemen downfield...the question is: Can there be a penalty for ineligibles downfield if the QB legally grounds the ball which passes the NZ inbounds...it just seems that the linemen have met all the requirements for being downfield during a legal forward pass yet I cannot find where legally grounding the ball overturns the ineligibles downfield, or the reverse, where ineligibles downfield overturn the legal grounding

[bama_stripes]

What you’ve described is a normal passing play.  The only fly in the ointment is the exception for the IG foul.

So, IDF is certainly on the table and should be called.

[NVFOA_Ump]

We have been advised that if the passer "dumps" the ball out of bounds and beyond the neutral zone that there is no Ineligible Down Field to be called.  If the "dump" is clearly in the field of play and there is an Ineligible Down Field then we should have a call for IDF.

[lawdog]

are they downfield? Yes.  is it a pass?  Yes.  Should you call this foul?  NO. 

That's what we've been advised and that's correct.  The rule was designed to allow them to just throw away a ball and take the loss of down on a bad play.  They don't want a penalty here.

Remember no one is buying a ticket to watch flags. 

Flag felonies.  This isn't one.

[ncwingman]

are they downfield? Yes.  is it a pass?  Yes.  Should you call this foul?  NO. 

That's what we've been advised and that's correct.  The rule was designed to allow them to just throw away a ball and take the loss of down on a bad play.  They don't want a penalty here.

Remember no one is buying a ticket to watch flags. 

Flag felonies.  This isn't one.

I'm going to disagree with this as a universal rule. Situationally, perhaps, however it's meant to dump the ball on a passing play where the linemen should NOT be downfield.

For instance, the offense is running the triple option, QB rolls out, has a RB behind him he might pitch to and the line is leading blocking downfield. QB sees his linemen need more practice at blocking and he's about to be tackled for a loss, and the RB would be tackled for worse (if he doesn't muff the pitch)... so he just dumps the ball out of bounds. That's not in the spirit of the rule. It's not intentional grounding with the new rule, but linemen going down field tells the defense they aren't going to throw the ball - so you shouldn't get an "out" from a busted play here.

[NVFOA_Ump]

A dump out of bounds should NEVER be flagged.   That's the clear spirit and intent of the rule.  We have clear and very explicit guidelines:


1.  Passer behind LOS
2.  Passer outside of the tackle box
3.  Ball thrown beyond the NZ and out of bounds
4.  We have a legal forward pass OB.


Play over, move on to the next down.

[fudilligas]

A dump out of bounds should NEVER be flagged.   That's the clear spirit and intent of the rule.  We have clear and very explicit guidelines:


1.  Passer behind LOS
2.  Passer outside of the tackle box
3.  Ball thrown beyond the NZ and out of bounds
4.  We have a legal forward pass OB.


Play over, move on to the next down.

i agree that if the ball lands OB there is no foul (#3 & #4 above)....but is there a foul for IDF if the pass lands inbounds

[Ralph Damren]

If you do this long enough, you'll see some of everything  . Last year the following occurred :

(1) QB scrambling and outside of FBZ;

(2) he dumps pass that lands at big ole' Bubba's (OL) backside ;

(3) I  for IG,   , coach asks for TO 

(4) Coach : "pass went over the LOS    "
      Me : " If it did, your OL was IDF , both 5 yarders  "
      Coach : "AYUH, 'spect so  "

I realized later that ,while IG is a spot foul, IDF is from previous spot.  When we wrote this exception, we felt that when in doubt no flag is the best result. In response to the OP, if the pass landed beyond the LOS OOB I wouldn't worry where the OL's were.

[Fatso]

We have been advised that if the passer "dumps" the ball out of bounds and beyond the neutral zone that there is no Ineligible Down Field to be called.  If the "dump" is clearly in the field of play and there is an Ineligible Down Field then we should have a call for IDF.

Same here.

[refjeff]

QB throws it OOB (new exception) = no foul for ineligibles downfield

QB throws it into the area of an eligible receiver (old rule) = foul for ineligibles downfield