Scrimmage Kick Questions

[animalspooker]

1. if a K player runs down and prevents the ball from breaking the plane of the EZ (ball subsequently recovered at the R1) is it 1st and 10 at the one or is it a touchback since the K player was standing in the EZ when he touched the ball?

2. would you agree that if K is in the kicking motion, regardless of how much he scrambled or how many tackles he's broken, he is afforded protection as a kicker so long as he is in or behind the neutral zone.

[NVFOA_Ump]

1.  This is simply 1st and 10 at the one.  Ball position is the key here and the ball must break the plane of the goal line to be a touchback.


2.  Not entirely.  We have been instructed to remember that a running style kicker (think rugby style) has protection but that his protection is not as "locked in" as the conventional kicker who kicks from his position immediately after he receives the snap.  That's based on the fact that he is a runner until the instant that the ball hits his foot and leeway must be given to the pursuing B players to tackle him as a runner.  Once he actually kicks the ball, he is protected as a kicker from excessive contact but not at the same level of protection as the "standard" kicker.

[lawdog]

1. if a K player runs down and prevents the ball from breaking the plane of the EZ (ball subsequently recovered at the R1) is it 1st and 10 at the one or is it a touchback since the K player was standing in the EZ when he touched the ball?

2. would you agree that if K is in the kicking motion, regardless of how much he scrambled or how many tackles he's broken, he is afforded protection as a kicker so long as he is in or behind the neutral zone.

1. Only the ball matters in NFHS that's what you need to remember.  Ball touches or crosses GL touchback.  Otherwise not a touchback.  ONLY the ball.

2. Yes.  A kicker is protected the same.  The rub here is when is it clear he's kicking.   A defender has every right to try to tackle a runner and the soon to be kicker is running and B/R tries to tackle him that's fine even if he quickly kicks it and the defender can't stop.  But once you kick you are protected the same regardless of what you did first.

[Ralph Damren]

We tell our guys (Ma9ners) that IF the B player was trying to tackle the precieved runner  = NO FLAG....BUT ,if B/R was trying to block the kick =  .

PS : If the percieved kicker stubs his toe and can't kick, there's no roughing the holder as in the Giant/Patriot game last night. CBS Morning News opened 'Around the World in 90 seconds' opened this morning with that play and the caption : "This sums up the Giant's season,try a field goal and get the holder sacked    "

[AlUpstateNY]

We tell our guys (Ma9ners) that IF the B player was trying to tackle the precieved runner  = NO FLAG....BUT ,if B/R was trying to block the kick =  .

PS : If the percieved kicker stubs his toe and can't kick, there's no roughing the holder as in the Giant/Patriot game last night. CBS Morning News opened 'Around the World in 90 seconds' opened this morning with that play and the caption : "This sums up the Giant's season,try a field goal and get the holder sacked    "

"Some Seasons are diamonds, others are for polishing, to find "shine". Hopefully the 2025 season will start to produce some lasting "shine" for many seasons to come. It's a repetitive process.

[NVFOA_Ump]

We tell our guys (Ma9ners) that IF the B player was trying to tackle the precieved runner  = NO FLAG....BUT ,if B/R was trying to block the kick =  .

PS : If the percieved kicker stubs his toe and can't kick, there's no roughing the holder as in the Giant/Patriot game last night. CBS Morning News opened 'Around the World in 90 seconds' opened this morning with that play and the caption : "This sums up the Giant's season,try a field goal and get the holder sacked    "

Actually, a close look at the replay showed that the holder actually moved the ball just as the kicker was ready to kick it.  I believe that he intentionally stopped his kick to avoid the possible block & return.

[Ralph Damren]

I went to bed shortly thereafter the 'holder-sack' play, thinking if the Pats lost this one I wouldn't want to see it  . Talking to my brother-in-law the next day, he informed me that in post-game the kicker said he stopped because the holder held the ball 'wobbley'  I also heard the holder was brought up from the taxi-squard on previous Monday. He may have a round trip ticket . When asked by his grandchildren many years from now : "Thell us about your NFL days, grandpa  " ; he could respond : " I held the ball 'wobbley' and got sacked ".

YankeeAl, I forgot you were also a Giant fan. I was one in my daze of youth and cried my eyes out when they lost to the Colts in overtime for the NFL Championship. To me back then the AFL was like the minor league, unti Broudway Joe and some team from NY beat those hated COLTS in the Super Bowl .

[riffraft]

I went to bed shortly thereafter the 'holder-sack' play, thinking if the Pats lost this one I wouldn't want to see it  . Talking to my brother-in-law the next day, he informed me that in post-game the kicker said he stopped because the holder held the ball 'wobbley'  I also heard the holder was brought up from the taxi-squard on previous Monday. He may have a round trip ticket . When asked by his grandchildren many years from now : "Thell us about your NFL days, grandpa  " ; he could respond : " I held the ball 'wobbley' and got sacked ".

YankeeAl, I forgot you were also a Giant fan. I was one in my daze of youth and cried my eyes out when they lost to the Colts in overtime for the NFL Championship. To me back then the AFL was like the minor league, unti Broudway Joe and some team from NY beat those hated COLTS in the Super Bowl .

my memory for that season is after beating the colts in the regular season, the browns got their butts whipped by them in the NFL championship game.  Didn't help that the next year the Vikings whipped the browns in the NFL Championship game.  Of course the next year the Browns along with the Steelers and Colts went to the AFC.

[bossman72]

Do we have any case book plays that deal with a punter kicking after a bad snap or a roll out and any guidelines to follow?

[GA Umpire]

Do we have any case book plays that deal with a punter kicking after a bad snap or a roll out and any guidelines to follow?

9.4.5 Situation B
And COMMENT.

[NVFOA_Ump]

9.4.5 Situation B
And COMMENT.

Attached is the text from the Case Book: