Author Topic: Georgia Suspensions  (Read 3203 times)

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Offline dammitbobby

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Georgia Suspensions
« on: December 03, 2025, 10:51:15 AM »
I know we have some Georgia officials here... what's the real story here? Is it really a power struggle between the team and the GHSAA?

Looks like GHSAA blinked, and they are not appealing the vacation of the 31 suspensions.

https://www.scoreatl.com/stories/breaking-gainesville-to-feature-full-roster-in-delayed-quarterfinals-matchup-against-hughes


Offline dammitbobby

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Offline GoodScout

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2025, 02:37:42 PM »
I've been spending way too much time arguing with "Facebook Referees" about the events, mostly defending the officials when posters complained they didn't dive in and break up the fights. I know one Refstriper has a lot of good insight, but I suspect he's going to stay on the sidelines ... as he probably should. Here's what I posted elsewhere:

As a former Georgia official, I've been following the case rather closely, and there's some assumptions here that need to be cleared up:
This took place during a playoff game where Gainesville was ahead of Brunswick 42-0. A Brunswick player initiated the brawl, literally ripping a helmet off a Gainesville player and striking him repeatedly. During the ensuing fight, a number of players on the field participated, and players from both sidelines rushed the field, some joining in, some not. Officials on the field wrote down numbers and ejected the players they were able to identify during the game.
After the game, GHSA reviewed game film and identified 39 players from Gainesville (the winning team) and 41 players from Brunswick and ruled that the Gainesville players were suspended for the next playoff game. They ruled the suspended Brunswick players would be suspended during the first game of next season, and Brunswick would be banned from postseason play in 2026. . Both schools were fined $5,000.
Gainesville, which was to play a playoff game the following Friday, filed with the GHSA for an appeal and presented film evidence to try and overturn the suspensions. After hearing the appeal, GHSA ruled that based on the evidence provided by the school, four players previously suspended could be reinstated for the Friday game. Gainesville, not happy that all the players weren't allowed to fight and play the next week, decided to go the legal route and were able to find a local judge who ruled that all the players should be allowed to play.
GHSA decided that to hopefully prevent the precedent of all high school sports decisions now being decided by courts, it would appeal the ruling, noting that since the initial ruling came down at 3pm on the day before the Thanksgiving holidays when courts were closed, it would suspend the scheduled playoff game until the case was resolved (which given the courts docket could be in 6 months or more).
Then, today, GHSA announced that the Gainesville-Hughes playoff game would be played this Friday, and the schedule would be adjusted to accommodate the delay. It appears that why it still plans to appeal the ruling, it's going to back down and let the 35 remaining players participate Friday.
Three points: One, previous posters are correct. Officials on the field only eject players for their actions during the game. Any rules about what happens after the game ends, or subsequent games, is a decision for the state athletics authority, not officials. Once we leave the field and file our reports, our hands are washed of the issue.
Two, the case creates a number of troubling trends. Gainesvilles coaches and the entire community have created an environment where they've convinced their players that they're victims, not participants and perpetrators. By rule, they fought. They left the benches. They're *supposed* to be ejected and sit out one week. But they don't see it anymore. "Let them Play" signs litter Gainesville.
Three, the other trend is one we're seeing way too often. Coaches, fans, players aren't happy with the rules of the game, so they go outside of the playing field and try and drag judges and courts into giving them a ruling they want. If it continues, the officials already tired of fans with iPhone cameras and Facebook accounts second-guessing them will now have judges and juries joining the fray. The exodus of officials will accelerate.
As Fred Thompson said in The Hunt for Red October, "Nothing good will come of this, and we'll be lucky to live through it."
« Last Edit: December 05, 2025, 05:58:44 PM by GoodScout »

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2025, 03:18:35 PM »
My understanding is that part of the issue is the actual verbiage of the bylaws... in one section, it says that the judgement of officials shall be considered final (paraphrasing here), and since no Gainesville players were ejected, that the officials' lack of ejections should stand. But in another section, it says that they (GHSAA) can hand out punishments they deem necessary (again, paraphrasing). On its surface, yes, IMO that is contradictory. And I believe the rule in question (paraphrased) says you cannot leave the sideline to fight (which is reasonable), but the majority of the team didn't go fight, and weren't involved in physical altercations, they just left the team area. The 4 that definitely did, they aren't disputing their punishment.


The other aspect, is that IMO they are trying to make something black and white in the rules when it really shouldn't be. I understand the rule says you can't leave your sideline to join a fight, but let's be real here: there's no way a team - a band of brothers - is going to let their teammates have their helmets ripped ff, taking punches, and they don't react. I'd be more shocked if they didn't to be honest.

I agree the officials are not in any way at fault here. And I also think it's a dangerous trend, allowing courts to intervene. But 'adding' 30+ suspensions, when there is ambiguity in the rule allowing you to do so, isn't exactly being reasonable, either.

JMO.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2025, 07:41:32 AM »
During a full-scale brawl, it’s impossible for a crew of 5 or 7 officials to correctly identify all the offenders.  That’s why I have no problem with the state governing body reviewing the “film” and imposing additional penalties as long as it’s done correctly and within the bylaws of the governing body.

I have a big problem with a local court getting involved (since it likely has a rooting interest) when an appeal of it’s ruling would delay the outcome beyond any reasonable time frame.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2025, 02:34:46 PM »
Enough, already with the "post review" micromanagement.  Players AND Coaches who decide to "over react" and/or participate in dangerous "group" protests EARN the penalties levied by appropriate supervision. Whining, after the fact, for "going too far" is simply NOT RELEVANT. Coaches are responsible for their players behavior and their focus should ALWAYS be to minimize/prevent excessive (dangerous) reactions.

Specific behaviors are REQUIRED for participation and players (as well as Coaches) MUST understand and ACCEPT their responsibilities to participate further. Hopefully serious penalties levied for over reaction, will serve as memorable guidelines to prevent repetition of excessive responses, that will last long beyond High School.  HS football is a great & positive challenging experience that has ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM for "Cheap Shots" and or excessive individual, or group, reactions to negative "perceptions".

Those decisions are reserved to the Game Officials, subject to potential review/assessment & possible reversal by authorized Game/League Officials.

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2025, 03:01:29 PM »
My understanding is that part of the issue is the actual verbiage of the bylaws... in one section, it says that the judgement of officials shall be considered final (paraphrasing here), and since no Gainesville players were ejected, that the officials' lack of ejections should stand. But in another section, it says that they (GHSAA) can hand out punishments they deem necessary (again, paraphrasing). On its surface, yes, IMO that is contradictory. And I believe the rule in question (paraphrased) says you cannot leave the sideline to fight (which is reasonable), but the majority of the team didn't go fight, and weren't involved in physical altercations, they just left the team area. The 4 that definitely did, they aren't disputing their punishment.


The other aspect, is that IMO they are trying to make something black and white in the rules when it really shouldn't be. I understand the rule says you can't leave your sideline to join a fight, but let's be real here: there's no way a team - a band of brothers - is going to let their teammates have their helmets ripped ff, taking punches, and they don't react. I'd be more shocked if they didn't to be honest.

I agree the officials are not in any way at fault here. And I also think it's a dangerous trend, allowing courts to intervene. But 'adding' 30+ suspensions, when there is ambiguity in the rule allowing you to do so, isn't exactly being reasonable, either.

JMO.
Tend to agree with you on all points. Suspending 30 players who didn’t actually participate in a fight just isn’t reasonable.

Online oldtimerref

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2025, 08:36:32 PM »
DURING OUR  CLINIC PRIOR TO MY FIRST COLLEGE GAME OUR SUPERVISOR DALLAS SHIRLEY TOLD US, YOU ARE A FOOTBALL OFFICIAL AND NOT A BOXING REFEREE PERIOD !!!!

Offline zebrastripes

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2025, 08:42:31 PM »
DURING OUR  CLINIC PRIOR TO MY FIRST COLLEGE GAME OUR SUPERVISOR DALLAS SHIRLEY TOLD US, YOU ARE A FOOTBALL OFFICIAL AND NOT A BOXING REFEREE PERIOD !!!!
Please learn how to turn off caps lock on your keyboard.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2025, 09:43:36 PM »
Enough, already with the "post review" micromanagement.  Players AND Coaches who decide to "over react" and/or participate in dangerous "group" protests EARN the penalties levied by appropriate supervision. Whining, after the fact, for "going too far" is simply NOT RELEVANT. Coaches are responsible for their players behavior and their focus should ALWAYS be to minimize/prevent excessive (dangerous) reactions.

Specific behaviors are REQUIRED for participation and players (as well as Coaches) MUST understand and ACCEPT their responsibilities to participate further. Hopefully serious penalties levied for over reaction, will serve as memorable guidelines to prevent repetition of excessive responses, that will last long beyond High School.  HS football is a great & positive challenging experience that has ABSOLUTELY NO ROOM for "Cheap Shots" and or excessive individual, or group, reactions to negative "perceptions".

Those decisions are reserved to the Game Officials, subject to potential review/assessment & possible reversal by authorized Game/League Officials.

But that's part of the problem - in one section, the bylaws say that all judgments of the officials in final and cannot be reviewed. So explain how that specific statement allows a governing body to come in and issue 39 suspensions for just one team?

You can't argue that the other section, that says they can review and issue additional punishments, takes precedence over that specific clause.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2025, 09:44:43 PM »
During a full-scale brawl, it’s impossible for a crew of 5 or 7 officials to correctly identify all the offenders.  That’s why I have no problem with the state governing body reviewing the “film” and imposing additional penalties as long as it’s done correctly and within the bylaws of the governing body.

I have a big problem with a local court getting involved (since it likely has a rooting interest) when an appeal of it’s ruling would delay the outcome beyond any reasonable time frame.

I completely agree with the concerns about court intervention but at the same time, the association needs to recognize that there's a flaw in their bylaws instead of refusing to back down an inch.

Online oldtimerref

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2025, 08:14:22 AM »
I usually do not respond to comments however sometime I  forget to change from CAPS. I am old in fact I  may have started officiating before the other writer was born.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2025, 10:43:05 AM »
I completely agree with the concerns about court intervention but at the same time, the association needs to recognize that there's a flaw in their bylaws instead of refusing to back down an inch.

Allow me a wild guess, "I don't know 5% of the info the Georgia Board has on this incident, so I have to rely on the presumption that what they (actually) know about the details of this incident (and what effect it may have on Georgia HS Football, factored into their decision.  So they (like field officials have details about their individual field decisions) likely have greater knowlwdge about the incident than I 9or any other individual have), so I'm willing to let them handle the final decision.

Hopefully, where we stand right now, EVERY HS Football player in GA, should be thinking about "conduct" and consequences, which is a good thing.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2025, 01:21:37 PM »
In today's litigious society I'm not touching anyone.
I was taught long time ago when the benches clear, to write the numbers of those who did NOT leave the bench - that list will be shorter than those on the field. Process of elimination.

And with chaos, "let the state sort it out" with films, etc.

Offline Grant - AR

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2025, 03:59:35 PM »
But that's part of the problem - in one section, the bylaws say that all judgments of the officials in final and cannot be reviewed. So explain how that specific statement allows a governing body to come in and issue 39 suspensions for just one team?

You can't argue that the other section, that says they can review and issue additional punishments, takes precedence over that specific clause.

Unless I'm misreading something, I look at this similar to the targeting rules in NCAA.  Just because the officials on the field don't catch it doesn't mean there won't be a penalty.  If the replay official reviews the play and sees targeting, he can call it.  In this situation, the governing body reviewed the film and levied additional penalties.

I don't see those statement as contradicting each other.  The penalties the officials gave out during the game are final, but the association can give additional penalties if/when they review the film.  The association can't take penalties away that the officials levied, but they can add additional penalties. 

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2025, 04:39:37 PM »
That's fair.

But IMO there's still ambiguity about what punishments can be meted out:

from the bylaws:

Each school must develop a plan to handle fight situations that may occur during an athletic contest. (not official's problem)
Attention must be given to keeping substitutes in the bench areas throughout the fight, and to keeping spectators away from the competitive area. (not official's problem)
Schools whose substitutes leave the bench area to go to the area of a fight will be fined by the GHSA Executive Director. (Both schools were fined)
All players who are involved in a fight and any substitutes who leave the bench area during a fight or potential fight *and* are ejected from the *current* contest, will be subject to the sit-out rule. This is where I feel it's not clear - 'current' is not past, and as I interpret this, since they weren't ejected during the 'current' game, they you can't eject them after the fact, then add punishment on top - especially since only 4-5 were confirmed to have been fighting.

The GHSA office may review film to determine participants in a fight situation, or to determine athletes leaving their bench to go to a fight, or to verify the correct number worn by a player in either of these situations. Note: penalties may then be levied, modified or changed based on this film review.

GHSA was right to hand out punishments after the fact, and I'm not against punishing players for their actions, but it needs to be based on what is specifically laid out in the rules and bylaws, and to me the verbiage is contradictory and that is what the school is pointing out.

In any case, IMO it's wrong to penalize virtually the entire team with suspensions when only 4-5 were confirmed to have physically been in the fight (and were rightfully suspended).



Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2025, 05:21:16 PM »
Having no idea, what the Georgia Board actually had opportunity to review, and the fact that this incident "sounds" exceptionally serious and problematic, I would lean towards allowing Administrative supervision to determining the ultimate penalties imposed, subject to THIER INDEPENDENT final review and decision.   

Offline Ted T

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2025, 09:33:34 PM »
Another thought:  My team is getting thumped like, say, 42-0.  I'm a senior who plays no other sport and I'm angry.  In short, I have nothing to lose so I'm going to get my pound of flesh and maybe get one of the opponent's players ejected so he can't play next week.  A school may have several players with nothing to lose. Instigating a situation, which I don't think was premeditated in this case, would have minimal impact on the losing team's kids.  But, in the future, with this game in mind, another school's kids in a similar situation might see this as a way to take down the opponent they couldn't beat on the field.  It may sound like a stretch, but it does give any sports governing body something else to consider when dealing with such a problem.  It may set a questionable precedent.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2025, 07:31:28 AM »
Another thought:  My team is getting thumped like, say, 42-0.  I'm a senior who plays no other sport and I'm angry.  In short, I have nothing to lose so I'm going to get my pound of flesh and maybe get one of the opponent's players ejected so he can't play next week.  A school may have several players with nothing to lose. Instigating a situation, which I don't think was premeditated in this case, would have minimal impact on the losing team's kids.  But, in the future, with this game in mind, another school's kids in a similar situation might see this as a way to take down the opponent they couldn't beat on the field.  It may sound like a stretch, but it does give any sports governing body something else to consider when dealing with such a problem.  It may set a questionable precedent.

I agree with this - and if the suspensions were allowed to stand, while it may be a stretch to think about today, it would definitely be a tactic used in the future against teams.

Offline bama_stripes

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2025, 08:05:21 AM »
Our state has a procedure in the case of a “nothing to lose” situation.  The school can be fined a substantial amount of money, and/or be barred from playoff eligibility for the next season.

Offline MAFBRef

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2025, 08:56:02 AM »
As this whole issue became a matter litigated in the legal system, this story details why GHSA had to modify its stance in the Gainesville Brunswick matter. In a similar case earlier in the 2025 season, another bench clearing brawl at a different Georgia high school football game did not result in suspensions of all the players who left the benches. In legalese, the argument is that Gainesville was being subjected to disparate treatment. It seems like the GHSA was blindsided when this was brought up. Story here: 
https://www.georgiahighschoolfootballdaily.com/main-news/ghsa-relents-allows-gainesville-to-play-friday-at-near-full-strength

Offline GoodScout

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2025, 09:49:32 AM »
Our state has a procedure in the case of a “nothing to lose” situation.  The school can be fined a substantial amount of money, and/or be barred from playoff eligibility for the next season.
Georgia has identical rules. Brunswick was fined $5,000 and is prohibited from the playoffs next season - unless the GHSA backs down on that too.

Offline TampaSteve

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2025, 11:52:03 AM »
for what it's worth: in FL if a player is ejected, the school is fined, BUT most schools contractually require the kid (via the family) to pay the fine.

Offline AlUpstateNY

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2025, 01:47:39 PM »
Another thought:  My team is getting thumped like, say, 42-0.  I'm a senior who plays no other sport and I'm angry.  In short, I have nothing to lose so I'm going to get my pound of flesh and maybe get one of the opponent's players ejected so he can't play next week.  A school may have several players with nothing to lose. Instigating a situation, which I don't think was premeditated in this case, would have minimal impact on the losing team's kids.  But, in the future, with this game in mind, another school's kids in a similar situation might see this as a way to take down the opponent they couldn't beat on the field.  It may sound like a stretch, but it does give any sports governing body something else to consider when dealing with such a problem.  It may set a questionable precedent.
Ted, I hope your question was somewhat hypothetical, if not you need to develop and understand a different view of HS sports.  If you're angry at "getting thumped" your primary concern should be directed at getting better at playing the game.  the teams you face are your opponents, not your enemies. If they are more effective than you, you should focus on their being more talented, more supervised, and more cohesive than you, and what can you, and your team learn from thse differences  and determine what you, and your team, should work harder on to "close those gaps".

You, nor your team, are guaranteed the opportunity of winning.  That is the challenge, that you, and your team, have to rise to.  If your opponent is already at a higher performance level, you might be able to learn from their example and performance.  You are NOT ENTITLED to the satisfaction of success.  That is the objective, open to hard work and dedicated effort at constant improvement until your efforts can EARN victory (& all it's satisfaction). 

Governing bodies are NOT perfect and strive to create an environment (and rules) to insure equal, practical and a FAIR competitive environment. It's up to you, and your teammates to build and master your efforts to achieve FAIR success.  Again, your opponents are NOT YOUR ENEMY, they are there to CHALLENGE your success and ability to achieve YOUR objective.  Observing their performance can be an important part of your learning how to achieve your goals. 

Nobody "owe's" you victory, it is a hard fought pursuit that must be earned by your hard pursued efforts, as defined/limited by "rules" governing BOTH teams.  The taste of "Victory" is sweet, but ONLY when it's achieved the proper way.

Offline dammitbobby

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Re: Georgia Suspensions
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2025, 02:11:08 PM »
Ted, I hope your question was somewhat hypothetical, if not you need to develop and understand a different view of HS sports.  If you're angry at "getting thumped" your primary concern should be directed at getting better at playing the game.  the teams you face are your opponents, not your enemies. If they are more effective than you, you should focus on their being more talented, more supervised, and more cohesive than you, and what can you, and your team learn from thse differences  and determine what you, and your team, should work harder on to "close those gaps".

You, nor your team, are guaranteed the opportunity of winning.  That is the challenge, that you, and your team, have to rise to.  If your opponent is already at a higher performance level, you might be able to learn from their example and performance.  You are NOT ENTITLED to the satisfaction of success.  That is the objective, open to hard work and dedicated effort at constant improvement until your efforts can EARN victory (& all it's satisfaction). 

Governing bodies are NOT perfect and strive to create an environment (and rules) to insure equal, practical and a FAIR competitive environment. It's up to you, and your teammates to build and master your efforts to achieve FAIR success.  Again, your opponents are NOT YOUR ENEMY, they are there to CHALLENGE your success and ability to achieve YOUR objective.  Observing their performance can be an important part of your learning how to achieve your goals. 

Nobody "owe's" you victory, it is a hard fought pursuit that must be earned by your hard pursued efforts, as defined/limited by "rules" governing BOTH teams.  The taste of "Victory" is sweet, but ONLY when it's achieved the proper way.

That's quite a noble take, but it's also not tethered to reality; one only needs to look any given week at some of the shenanigans occurring in football games - like bench-clearing brawls -  that go viral to see that kids are gonna be... kids, and they're less interested in the fairness of sport perspective than winning, and 'if I feel like I am being disrespected, I can take it out on my opponents enemies'.