Basic Spot behind itself

[ncwingman]

With the editorial change to 10-4-4a, the basic spot is the spot of the foul for illegal batting or kicking by A that occurs behind the basic spot.

But, if the basic spot is the spot of the foul, the spot of the foul is no longer behind the basic spot, so 10-4-4a doesn't apply - so the basic spot becomes the previous spot, which then put the spot of the foul behind the basic spot, which moves the basic spot back to the spot of the foul, which means that basic spot is no longer behind....

Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed. 

[sj]

With the editorial change to 10-4-4a, the basic spot is the spot of the foul for illegal batting or kicking by A that occurs behind the basic spot.

But, if the basic spot is the spot of the foul, the spot of the foul is no longer behind the basic spot, so 10-4-4a doesn't apply - so the basic spot becomes the previous spot, which then put the spot of the foul behind the basic spot, which moves the basic spot back to the spot of the foul, which means that basic spot is no longer behind....

Oh no, I've gone cross-eyed. 

The funny thing about that is that the powers that be would read that and probably ask, "Correct. So what's the problem?"

[bama_stripes]

Yeah, it would be simpler to use “enforcement spot.”

I’m still vexed that illegal touching isn’t included.  Makes no sense.

[bossman72]

Just getting my boot ready to kick the editorial committee in the nuts.  Seriously, they don't know the difference between basic spot and enforcement spot.  They also don't know what succeeding spot means.

[bossman72]

I’m still vexed that illegal touching isn’t included.  Makes no sense.

Definitely agree.  I think this was an oversight, but ITP should be a spot foul behind the previous spot like it was before.  It's previous spot in NCAA if that's worth anything.

[Derek Teigen]

I was reading this thread and wanted to confirm my understanding that illegal kicking and batting behind the line of scrimmage is a spot foul.

Also are all fouls by B in their opponents endzone enforced from the goal line, or the previous spot.  Let's say it's 1st and 10 at the 20 and the qb is scrambling and there is a face back at the A1 we enforce the penalty from the A20....but if the facemask occurs in the endzone?

[ncwingman]

I was reading this thread and wanted to confirm my understanding that illegal kicking and batting behind the line of scrimmage is a spot foul.

Correct.

Also are all fouls by B in their opponents endzone enforced from the goal line, or the previous spot.  Let's say it's 1st and 10 at the 20 and the qb is scrambling and there is a face back at the A1 we enforce the penalty from the A20....but if the facemask occurs in the endzone?

All fouls by B are enforced from either the previous spot or the end of the run. With the rule change a few years ago, if the end of the run is behind the previous spot, the foul is enforced from the previous spot. A foul by B in A's end zone is not an exception to this - it would be enforced from the previous spot (the A20 in your scenario).

The spot of the foul for a foul by a team not in possession of the ball at the time of the foul is never relevant.

[Derek Teigen]

So in this scenario where you have first and 10 at the A20yard line quarterback, scrambles back into the end zone and fumbles the ball and B illegally bats the ball in the end zone and recovers it.... the spot of the foul is in the end zone but the enforcement of the penalty is at  the A20 ?

[ncwingman]

So in this scenario where you have first and 10 at the A20yard line quarterback, scrambles back into the end zone and fumbles the ball and B illegally bats the ball in the end zone and recovers it.... the spot of the foul is in the end zone but the enforcement of the penalty is at  the A20 ?

Yes, enforce from the previous spot. 10-4-4a only applies to illegal kicks or bats by A.

[SJohnson]

So in this scenario where you have first and 10 at the A20yard line quarterback, scrambles back into the end zone and fumbles the ball and B illegally bats the ball in the end zone and recovers it.... the spot of the foul is in the end zone but the enforcement of the penalty is at  the A20 ?

Thank you all for the discussion! Tried to think of some key takeaways for a note card. 

Fumble by A- If "A" player illegally kicks or bats the ball behind LOS, it is a spot foul. If penalty is enforced from A's endzone, it is a safety.

Fumble by A- If "B" player illegally kicks or bats the ball, behind the LOS, and the penalty is enforced, it is enforced from the previous spot or end of related run.

If "A" recovers a ball that was illegally kicked/batted by "B" in the Endzone, "A" can NOT tack on ITP to next run? Obviously they can take the result of the play.

Examples: 1/10 @A-3. A11 takes a handoff and runs to the A-2 where he fumbles backwards into A's Endzone. B12 intentionally kicks the ball to B13 who falls on the ball. Next snap: 1/5 @ A-8, 40 on play clock, game clock starts on snap.

1/10 @A-3. A11 takes a handoff and runs to the A-7 where he fumbles backwards into A's Endzone. B12 intentionally kicks the ball to B13 who falls on the ball. Next snap: 1st and 1 @ A-12. 40 on play clock, game starts on snap.

1/10 @A-3 A11 takes a handoff and runs to the A-2 where he fumbles backwards into the A's Endzone. B12 intentionally kicks the ball toward B13, yet A20 picks up the ball and advances to the A-8.
Next snap "options"- 1st and 5 @A-3, 40 on play clock, game starts on snap. OR 2nd and 5 @ A-8, 40 on play, game starts on ready.

Any of this correct?