Fair Catch Kicks with fouls?

[TxJim]

For promoting thoughts about FCKs, rules, and penalty administation which may or maybe not(?) apply to FCKs without further guidance. I was thinking there are some gray areas needing clarification.
Others thoughts?
 
1. Team A’s request is granted for a Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 with 0:05 2Q. Team B lines up in 3 sets of  three players aligned shoulder to shoulder within two yards of each other near the B-10 with two receivers positioned near the goal post in B’s end zone. A19’s Fair Catch Kick is short and is caught by B5 in B’s endzone and he returns into the field of play. B45, B47 and B22 move forward shoulder to shoulder blocking Team A players at the B-20, opening a lane for B5 to advance into A’s endzone as time expires. A55 committed a) an illegal blindside block, or b) a live ball UNS, at the 50 during B5’s return. Ruling?

Ruling: In both, Touchdown Team B, quarter is extended for Team B’s Try down, 25 seconds play clock [UIL]. Team B’s kick formation is legal (2-16-11-g and -h, 6-1-2-c-6 and -7) and the wedge blocks by B are legal since illegal wedge formations and blocks only apply to free kicks (6-1-10-b). Team B has the option to enforce fifteen-yard penalties for either A’s personal foul or the unsportsmanlike conduct on the try or at the succeeding kickoff to begin the 3Q. The quarter is extended for B’s try. (3-2-3-a-4-c).


2. Team A’s request is granted for a Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 with 0:00 2Q. Team B lines up in 3 sets of three players aligned shoulder to shoulder within two yards of each other near the B-10 with two receivers positioned near the goal post in B’s end zone. A19’s Fair Catch Kick is short and is caught by B5 in B’s endzone and he returns into the field of play. B45, B47 and B22 move forward shoulder to shoulder blocking Team A players at the B-20, opening a lane for B5 to advance into A’s endzone. During the return, B55 committed an illegal blindside block at the 50. Ruling?

Ruling: B 1/10 B-35, untimed scrimmage down, 25 seconds play clock. Team B’s formation and wedge blocks are legal since illegal wedge formations and blocks only apply to free kicks (2-16-11-g and -h, 6-1-2-c-6 and -7). The result of the play is a TD, so Team A will accept Team B’s IBB foul enforced from the 50. Team B is awarded an untimed down (3-2-3-a-4-b).


3. Team A’s request is granted for a Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 with 0:00 2Q. Team B lines up in 3 sets of  three players aligned shoulder to shoulder within two yards of each other near the B-10 with two receivers positioned near the goal post in B’s end zone. A19’s Fair Catch Kick is short and is caught by B5 in B’s endzone and he returns into the field of play. B45, B47 and B22 move forward shoulder to shoulder blocking Team A players at the B-20, opening a lane for B5 to advance.  During the B5’s run, A55 tackles B5 by the horse collar at the A-40. Ruling?

Ruling: B 1/10 A-25 untimed scrimmage down, 25 seconds play clock. Team B’s acceptance of A’s foul will extend the quarter for one play, otherwise if B declines the half is over (3-2-3-a-4-b).


4. Team A’s request is granted for a Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 with 0:00 2Q. A19’s Fair Catch Kick is very high and short and is caught by B5 at the B-10. B5 returns the ball to the B-40 where he is hit and fumbles. A22 recovers the ball while grounded at the B-41. While the ball was in flight, B50 blocks A44 below the waist at the B-29. Ruling?

Ruling: A, Fair Catch Kick, B-25 or A, 1/10 B-25 untimed scrimmage down, 25 seconds play clock. Team A was executing a Fair Catch Kick with an accepted penalty during the kick and Team B would not next put the ball in play. The only enforcement option is from the previous spot. By interpretation of Rule 3-2-3-a-4-b, Team A may elect to repeat the down as a Fair Catch Kick or as one untimed scrimmage down after enforcement of B’s penalty from the previous Fair Catch Kick spot. If A declines, the half is over. (3-2-3-a-4-b).


5. Team A’s request is granted for a Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 with 0:00 2Q. A19’s Fair Catch Kick is very high and short and is caught by B5 at the B-10. B5 returns the ball to the B-40 where he is hit and fumbles. A22 recovers the ball at the B-41 and returns it across B’s goal line. While the ball was in flight, B50 blocks A44 below the waist at the B-29 and then A55 commits a personal foul at the B-20 during A22’s return. Ruling?

Ruling: A, rekick Fair Catch Kick, B-40 for offsetting fouls; or A untimed scrimmage down 1/10, B-35, 25 seconds for A declining offsetting fouls. Team A has the option to decline offsetting fouls. If Team A takes B’s penalty, Team B will take A’s, the fouls offset and the only option is to reattempt the Fair Catch Kick at the B-40 (3-2-3-a-2, 3-2-3-a-4-b, 10-2-2-4-a). If A declines, B must take A’s penalty since to decline would result in a Team A touchdown. By interpretation of Rule 2-16-11-a and 10-2-2-2-a, since Team A fouled while executing a running play after a change of possession that resulted in a touchdown, the “trigger” for another Fair Catch Kick option is gone and after enforcement of A’s penalty, the quarter is extended for Team A to run a scrimmage play (3-2-3-a-4-b).

[ElvisLives]

We simply don’t have enough guidance to say if these rulings are correct. While the FCK ‘begins’ as a free kick, we also know that  when the kick is unsuccessful, it is treated as a scrimmage kick. So, is it a free kick until the ball is touches the ground, or is caught/recovered by somebody, then it becomes a scrimmage kick? If so, then is wedge blocking illegal while the down is a free kick? Does the kicker have protection from being contacted before he has advanced 5 yards, etc.? Is Team A eligible to touch/catch/recover the kicked ball after it reaches B’s ‘Fair Catch Kick line’? Once it turns into a scrimmage kick, is that retroactive back to the moment of the kick? Would penalties for fouls by B during the kick be subject to PSK enforcement?
So many gaps.
This whole FCK rule was not vetted well, and not written well. We simply don’t have enough guidance on how all of this should work.
Shaw has been asked to provide guidance on these issues, with no response.

IMHO, once the ball is kicked, the down should be treated as a scrimmage kick, but with the kicker having his protection as with a free kick. That suggestion has been made to Shaw.

As it is, we just don’t know. Pray you don’t get one.

I don’t expect to see a direct response from Shaw. But, I am holding out hope that he’ll issue a bulletin and/or play situations that give us direction on these issues.

[dammitbobby]

For 1-3, I'm not going to shed any crocodile tears if an official were to flag this as a foul for an illegal wedge... it's a safety foul, and IMO is a clear oversight in the rules.

Should I get one of these, I'm just going to be make the most reasonable, fair enforcement decision I can... that's all that can be expected in this situation.

[bctgp]

If we get no guidance from NCAA before season starts, seems like TASO could provide their guidance (assuming with approval from UIL) until such time we get something from NCAA if that ever happens.  Just a thought.

[JasonTX]

I believe this is just a scrimmage kick made from a free kick formation as mentioned in rule 2.  So, make sure the formation follows free kick rules, but after the ball is kicked, we then have a scoring attempt, and the rest of the play would be based upon field goal rules.  Another example is, Team A attempts a fair catch kick from the A-40.  The kick is untouched by team B and goes out of bounds at the B-20.  Ruling:  No foul.  B's ball 1st and 10 at the A-40.  Unless they come out with some updated rules, I would not be adding fouls, that only exist on a free kick and not on a field goal.

[ElvisLives]

I believe this is just a scrimmage kick made from a free kick formation as mentioned in rule 2.  So, make sure the formation follows free kick rules, but after the ball is kicked, we then have a scoring attempt, and the rest of the play would be based upon field goal rules.  Another example is, Team A attempts a fair catch kick from the A-40.  The kick is untouched by team B and goes out of bounds at the B-20.  Ruling:  No foul.  B's ball 1st and 10 at the A-40.  Unless they come out with some updated rules, I would not be adding fouls, that only exist on a free kick and not on a field goal.

I don’t disagree, except that the kicker is just as vulnerable with this kick as he is on a true free kick, and deserves protection. And, since this a whole new type of down, it doesn’t have to exclusively obey either free kick or scrimmage kick rules. It can have it’s own rules - a bit of a ‘hybrid.’ Clock starts on the kick - never had that before. But, by and large, it can follow SK rules. We just need to know what happens between the kick and when the kick fails to score or becomes dead. Not that difficult. I ‘assembled’ some proposed UIL Exceptions to cover ALL of that, in about an hour last night, and forwarded to folks that might be able to put them in front of the UIL. But they probably won’t.

[TxJim]

For 1-3, I'm not going to shed any crocodile tears if an official were to flag this as a foul for an illegal wedge... it's a safety foul, and IMO is a clear oversight in the rules.

Should I get one of these, I'm just going to be make the most reasonable, fair enforcement decision I can... that's all that can be expected in this situation.

It's good to air it out, gets some eyes on it, and help identify grey areas with practical examples of fouls or apparent fouls during and after the fair catch kicks in accordance with the rules that exist.
I get it and don't disagree with you there is assuredly a safety aspect, but an "illegal wedge block" on a scrimmage kick return is unsupported by rule and to enforce it as a foul would be a mis-application of rules.
Going there without guidance opens up a whole can of worms.

There is an effort to at least get TASO to carry some water on this, hopefully with UIL or perhaps maybe just as TASO policy if UIL chooses not to do anything more than the NCAA has already.
TXMike is aware I think, and is to who I would make specific suggestions and questions to regarding what clarifications you suggest.

We all just want things set so nobody has to experience a Waterloo moment in a some wacky Texas high school football game on the field because they didn't have sufficient rule support

Otherwise, it's as you observed, you'll have to reason on the fly with what you understand and hope you get backed up by higher authority.

[Whodatboy18]

One aspect I haven’t seen mentioned is why wouldn’t the kicking team just kick it out of bounds instead of allowing a fair catch kick. It seems like the likely scenario to see this play is at the end of a half when the time is too limited to make a drive viable.

[dammitbobby]

It's good to air it out, gets some eyes on it, and help identify grey areas with practical examples of fouls or apparent fouls during and after the fair catch kicks in accordance with the rules that exist.
I get it and don't disagree with you there is assuredly a safety aspect, but an "illegal wedge block" on a scrimmage kick return is unsupported by rule and to enforce it as a foul would be a mis-application of rules.
Going there without guidance opens up a whole can of worms.

There is an effort to at least get TASO to carry some water on this, hopefully with UIL or perhaps maybe just as TASO policy if UIL chooses not to do anything more than the NCAA has already.
TXMike is aware I think, and is to who I would make specific suggestions and questions to regarding what clarifications you suggest.

We all just want things set so nobody has to experience a Waterloo moment in a some wacky Texas high school football game on the field because they didn't have sufficient rule support

Otherwise, it's as you observed, you'll have to reason on the fly with what you understand and hope you get backed up by higher authority.

I wasn't saying that *I* would call it, but I do hear you, you have a valid point... but man it's gonna tough watching a kid get stretchered off the field because he got flattened by 3 big ole bubbas and a technicality (IMO) gives them no consequences.

[JasonTX]

I wasn't saying that *I* would call it, but I do hear you, you have a valid point... but man it's gonna tough watching a kid get stretchered off the field because he got flattened by 3 big ole bubbas and a technicality (IMO) gives them no consequences.

We can probably count on one hand the number of wedge fouls called across all levels of play in the last several years and still have five spare fingers.   I'm thinking the Fair Catch kick will be the same.  If someone sees both in the same gane, I'm going to go play the lottery.